Dinner Tonight, 1/31/2025

[Jill McQuown]

A pasta casserole. 16 oz. of dry tri-colour rotini cooked in salted
water until just al dente. Strain and put the cooked pasta in a
casserole dish. Stir in 6 oz. of drained canned flaked Alaskan crab
meat and about 2 cups (16 oz.) of cream sauce containing grated Parmesan
cheese and seasoned with Garlic & Herb Mrs. Dash. Sprinkle the top with
dried breadcrumbs and dot with butter. Bake, uncovered at 350°F for
about 20 minutes until the sauce is bubbly and the crumb topping is browned.

Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Jill

[Salvador Mirzo]

A pasta [...]

I haven't had that years---too much gluten. And it seems it's late for
me. Once you quit it good, there's no going back.

Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Only heated up what was left over from lunch. :)

[Salvador Mirzo]

Post by Salvador Mirzo

A pasta [...]

I haven't had that years---too much gluten. And it seems it's late for
me. Once you quit it good, there's no going back.

Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Only heated up what was left over from lunch. :)

I'm not worried about gluten. I don't know what you had for lunch.

Pretty much nobody is.

Sorry---for lunch it was rice with beans on top with a couple pieces of
meat, a water banana, a bit of cabbage and a piece of yam. I think that
was it. The meat cut was ``muscle meat'', which is a cheap but very
nutricious and lean.

At dinner, I also added a bit of ``farofa'', which is a Brazilian name
for a dish made of roasted cassava flour. It's usually mixed with meats
or scrambled eggs, onion, garlic... Mine was just onions and garlic, but
I prefer it with eggs and some meat mixed in. It was actually a bit
salty, but that's alright once in a while.

What I don't like much is salty rice. Rice is so good---should be never
be salty. It's funny. When I was younger, I would never make any food
comments, but these days I'm highly sensitive to what I eat and so I
have a bunch of comments during the meal. It all started with quitting
suggar and coffee... I've never been the same.

Is there any good that you eat and can feel it's not doing you much good?

[Jill McQuown]

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Salvador Mirzo

A pasta [...]

I haven't had that years---too much gluten. And it seems it's late for
me. Once you quit it good, there's no going back.

Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Only heated up what was left over from lunch. :)

I'm not worried about gluten. I don't know what you had for lunch.

Pretty much nobody is.

I know there are some people who are gluten intolerant. Celiac Disease.
I'm not one of those people.

Post by Salvador Mirzo
Sorry---for lunch it was rice with beans on top with a couple pieces of
meat, a water banana, a bit of cabbage and a piece of yam. I think that
was it. The meat cut was ``muscle meat'', which is a cheap but very
nutricious and lean.

Sounds interesting. I think in the US it could be any cut of very lean
beef. Possibly known as flap meat, skirt steak. I'm guessing, of
course. I have no idea what is sold in Brazil. :)

Post by Salvador Mirzo
At dinner, I also added a bit of ``farofa'', which is a Brazilian name
for a dish made of roasted cassava flour. It's usually mixed with meats
or scrambled eggs, onion, garlic... Mine was just onions and garlic, but
I prefer it with eggs and some meat mixed in. It was actually a bit
salty, but that's alright once in a while.

I'm also not opposed to salt. It is a key ingredient in bringing out
the flavor in many recipes. Food cooked without salt is bland. Of
course, over-salting can ruin a very good meal.

I will never cook a beef steak without first sprinkling salt on it and
letting it set for a while. Same thing with hamburgers.

Post by Salvador Mirzo
What I don't like much is salty rice. Rice is so good---should be never
be salty.

I don't eat a lot of rice. But, IMHO, a *little* salt in the cooking
water is essential. Salt enhances; if it overwhelms the taste of the
rice someone added too much.

Post by Salvador Mirzo
It's funny. When I was younger, I would never make any food
comments, but these days I'm highly sensitive to what I eat and so I
have a bunch of comments during the meal. It all started with quitting
suggar and coffee... I've never been the same.

I don't use much sugar in any of my cooking. I never was a huge fan of
coffee so it was easy enough to stop drinking it.

Post by Salvador Mirzo
Is there any good that you eat and can feel it's not doing you much good?

Not really. I'm not lactose intolerant, no gluten sensitivity, not
worried about carbs. I can eat pretty much anything I want and feel
just fine. Everything in moderation. :)

Jill

[Ed P]

I'm also not opposed to salt.  It is a key ingredient in bringing out
the flavor in many recipes.  Food cooked without salt is bland.  Of
course, over-salting can ruin a very good meal.
I will never cook a beef steak without first sprinkling salt on it and
letting it set for a while.  Same thing with hamburgers.

What I don't like much is salty rice.  Rice is so good---should be never
be salty.

I don't eat a lot of rice.  But, IMHO, a *little* salt in the cooking
water is essential.  Salt enhances; if it overwhelms the taste of the
rice someone added too much.
Jill

I use a bit more salt now than I did years ago. Fortunately, it does
not affect me.

My son uses a LOT of salt. I cringe at times when I see him salting his
plate. Then has a blood test and the doctor says "your sodium level is
a bit low"

[Jill McQuown]

I'm also not opposed to salt.  It is a key ingredient in bringing out
the flavor in many recipes.  Food cooked without salt is bland.  Of
course, over-salting can ruin a very good meal.
I will never cook a beef steak without first sprinkling salt on it and
letting it set for a while.  Same thing with hamburgers.

What I don't like much is salty rice.  Rice is so good---should be never
be salty.

I don't eat a lot of rice.  But, IMHO, a *little* salt in the cooking
water is essential.  Salt enhances; if it overwhelms the taste of the
rice someone added too much.
Jill

I use a bit more salt now than I did years ago.  Fortunately, it does
not affect me.
My son uses a LOT of salt.  I cringe at times when I see him salting his
plate.  Then has a blood test and the doctor says "your sodium level is
a bit low"

When I was a child I used to eat salt by the handful. My mother was
worried about it so she asked the doctor. He told her my sodium level
was low and my cravings were my body's way of making up for it. Not
harmful. This does not mean I over-salt food or want it to taste extra
salty. Heck, I even like snacking on unsalted potato chips from time to
time.

Jill

[songbird]

Jill McQuown wrote:
...

Post by Jill McQuown
When I was a child I used to eat salt by the handful. My mother was
worried about it so she asked the doctor. He told her my sodium level
was low and my cravings were my body's way of making up for it. Not
harmful. This does not mean I over-salt food or want it to taste extra
salty. Heck, I even like snacking on unsalted potato chips from time to
time.

i don't usually add salt to many dishes, but for frying
a burger i do like garlic salt sprinkled on both sides.

other than that i don't use it and we don't put out salt
and pepper shakers for meals. the pepper corns in the pepper
mill are probably 15 years old.

i see people who put salt and pepper on salads. i can't
do that as most ranch dressings or blue cheese dressings or
other choices have plenty of salt for my tastes in them
already.

i do certainly prefer my chips and fries to not come with
salt or seasoned coatings added.

the most salt i get these days comes from some canned foods
and from lightly salted roasted peanuts. when we put up our
tomatoes we don't add any salt to those. they're good from
the jars for several years.


songbird

[Cindy Hamilton]

Post by songbird
...

Post by Jill McQuown
When I was a child I used to eat salt by the handful. My mother was
worried about it so she asked the doctor. He told her my sodium level
was low and my cravings were my body's way of making up for it. Not
harmful. This does not mean I over-salt food or want it to taste extra
salty. Heck, I even like snacking on unsalted potato chips from time to
time.

i don't usually add salt to many dishes, but for frying
a burger i do like garlic salt sprinkled on both sides.
other than that i don't use it and we don't put out salt
and pepper shakers for meals. the pepper corns in the pepper
mill are probably 15 years old.

We buy pepper by the pound.

Post by songbird
i see people who put salt and pepper on salads. i can't
do that as most ranch dressings or blue cheese dressings or
other choices have plenty of salt for my tastes in them
already.

I don't use bottled dressing. Generally vinegar or citrus
juice and olive oil. Once in a while I make my own ranch,
but I don't much care for creamy dressings.

Your tastes are scarcely average.

Post by songbird
i do certainly prefer my chips and fries to not come with
salt or seasoned coatings added.
the most salt i get these days comes from some canned foods
and from lightly salted roasted peanuts. when we put up our
tomatoes we don't add any salt to those. they're good from
the jars for several years.

Nobody uses enough salt in canned tomatoes for it to act as
a preservative. Enough salt to osmotically dehydrate bacteria
would result in tomato jerky. It's the heat and acid that
preserve canned tomatoes.

[songbird]

...

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
the most salt i get these days comes from some canned foods
and from lightly salted roasted peanuts. when we put up our
tomatoes we don't add any salt to those. they're good from
the jars for several years.

Nobody uses enough salt in canned tomatoes for it to act as
a preservative. Enough salt to osmotically dehydrate bacteria
would result in tomato jerky. It's the heat and acid that
preserve canned tomatoes.

heat is a part of the process but it is the acidity which
is more important for any kind of storage time more than a
few days. you do need both.

i'm well versed in the different levels of sterility (or not)
and the microbiology involved - i'm also a lot more careful
than most people i know. Mom cross-contaminates things quite
often and it spoils foods faster. i try to get her to change
her ways but she often won't or forgets.

if you are doing acid enough tomatoes you do not have to
worry about botulism as much as you would otherwise, but for
those who are new to canning items of various kinds i
definitely recommend reading up on the microbiology and why
certain things are more important than others. this also has
some application to cooking too since it is a good idea to
know what foods might not be safe while others are more
forgiving.

sugar and salt can be used as preservatives, but for the
most part i would not want to rely upon those. imagine
using a spice blend with sugar and salt in it and thinking
you are covered only to find out there were all sorts of
bacterial contaminants in there the hard way? often there
are in anything that comes from a natural environment. i
don't do marinades.


songbird

[Jill McQuown]

Post by songbird
...

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
the most salt i get these days comes from some canned foods
and from lightly salted roasted peanuts. when we put up our
tomatoes we don't add any salt to those. they're good from
the jars for several years.

Nobody uses enough salt in canned tomatoes for it to act as
a preservative. Enough salt to osmotically dehydrate bacteria
would result in tomato jerky. It's the heat and acid that
preserve canned tomatoes.

heat is a part of the process but it is the acidity which
is more important for any kind of storage time more than a
few days. you do need both.
i'm well versed in the different levels of sterility (or not)
and the microbiology involved - i'm also a lot more careful
than most people i know. Mom cross-contaminates things quite
often and it spoils foods faster. i try to get her to change
her ways but she often won't or forgets.

You're talking about home canning vs. commercially canned tomatoes.
Apples and oranges.

Jill

[songbird]

Jill McQuown wrote:
...

Post by Jill McQuown
You're talking about home canning vs. commercially canned tomatoes.
Apples and oranges.

i wasn't comparing anything to commercially canned tomatoes
or i would have said so. just as Cindy wasn't speaking about
commercially canned tomatoes either when mentioning using large
amounts of salt to get salt cured tomatoes or "tomato jerky" i
think that was the expression she used.


songbird

[Cindy Hamilton]

i don't do marinades.

Why not? It's a flavoring method, not a preservation method.
Items to be marinated are placed in the refrigerator.

[songbird]

Post by Cindy Hamilton

i don't do marinades.

Why not? It's a flavoring method, not a preservation method.
Items to be marinated are placed in the refrigerator.

we just don't cook that ways. we don't own a grill.

most things we cook in large pots and we don't do too
much with dishes that involve pre-searing beyond simple
browning in the pots of things that need that sort of
cooking.

when you are making large pots of things it's not
very practical method, especially if your fridge is
full of other things.

we don't do complicated cooking here very often.
i'm quite ok with that. :)

note though that i'm well aware of various methods of
cooking and enough different cuisines to be able to do
them if i want. these days though it makes little
sense for me to cook like that since almost all of it
is too spicy for Mom. once in a while every few months
i'll make something for myself that is spicy and
complicated enough - the past few times have been Thai
green curries. the next thing i'm planning on making
for me is some black walnut cookies.


songbird

[Cindy Hamilton]

Post by songbird

Post by Cindy Hamilton

i don't do marinades.

Why not? It's a flavoring method, not a preservation method.
Items to be marinated are placed in the refrigerator.

we just don't cook that ways. we don't own a grill.

You don't have to grill things that are marinated. For example,
marination is a common first step in stir fry.

Post by songbird
note though that i'm well aware of various methods of
cooking and enough different cuisines to be able to do
them if i want. these days though it makes little
sense for me to cook like that since almost all of it
is too spicy for Mom.

You can use as much or as little as you wish. Don't you
think there are babies and people with tetchy stomachs all
over the world?

[Dave Smith]

On 2025-02-01 10:31 a.m., Jill McQuown wrote:
.

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Only heated up what was left over from lunch. :)

I'm not worried about gluten.  I don't know what you had for lunch.

Pretty much nobody is.

I know there are some people who are gluten intolerant.  Celiac Disease.
 I'm not one of those people.

Last summer my son was diagnosed with celiac disease. He has issues that
cleared up within days of giving up gluten. Then there are people who
are convinced that gluten is bad for you even if they aren't gluten
intolerant. Get a group of young people together and you are bound to
get several vegetarians, a vegan or two, some who are gluten intolerant
and some who are lactose intolerant.

[Bruce]

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 13:15:32 -0500, Dave Smith

Post by Dave Smith
.

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Only heated up what was left over from lunch. :)

I'm not worried about gluten.  I don't know what you had for lunch.

Pretty much nobody is.

I know there are some people who are gluten intolerant.  Celiac Disease.
 I'm not one of those people.

Last summer my son was diagnosed with celiac disease. He has issues that
cleared up within days of giving up gluten. Then there are people who
are convinced that gluten is bad for you even if they aren't gluten
intolerant. Get a group of young people together and you are bound to
get several vegetarians, a vegan or two, some who are gluten intolerant
and some who are lactose intolerant.

You'll also get someone who's extremely intolerant, like Dave Smith.

[Jill McQuown]

Post by Dave Smith
.

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Only heated up what was left over from lunch. :)

I'm not worried about gluten.  I don't know what you had for lunch.

Pretty much nobody is.

I know there are some people who are gluten intolerant.  Celiac
Disease.   I'm not one of those people.

Last summer my son was diagnosed with celiac disease. He has issues that
cleared up within days of giving up gluten.  Then there are people who
are convinced that gluten is bad for you even if they aren't gluten
intolerant.  Get a group of young people together and you are bound to
get several vegetarians, a vegan or two, some who are  gluten intolerant
and some who are lactose intolerant.

Of course there are people like that. But don't get me started on
Vegans who believe eating honey is harmful to the bees and one shouldn't
milk cows (for some silly reason) because it's somehow harmful to them.
Don't eat cheese! But sure, we'll make up some fake Vegan cheese that
contains a ton of vegetable oil and preservatives and stuff that maybe
makes it taste a little bit like cheese. WTF? I don't want to hear
that kind of preaching about food. Eat whatever you want, but don't
bitch at me for what I eat. Don't want to hear about any fad diet
trends, either. I eat what I want, when I want. Moderation is the key.

Jill

[Dave Smith]

Of course there are people like that.  But don't get me started on
Vegans who believe eating honey is harmful to the bees and one shouldn't
milk cows (for some silly reason) because it's somehow harmful to them.
Don't eat cheese!  But sure, we'll make up some fake Vegan cheese that
contains a ton of vegetable oil and preservatives and stuff that maybe
makes it taste a little bit like cheese.  WTF?  I don't want to hear
that kind of preaching about food.  Eat whatever you want, but don't
bitch at me for what I eat.  Don't want to hear about any fad diet
trends, either.  I eat what I want, when I want. Moderation is the key.

My father in law had a good motto... Everything in moderation, including
moderation.

[Bruce]

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 13:44:51 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Dave Smith
.

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Only heated up what was left over from lunch. :)

I'm not worried about gluten.  I don't know what you had for lunch.

Pretty much nobody is.

I know there are some people who are gluten intolerant.  Celiac
Disease.   I'm not one of those people.

Last summer my son was diagnosed with celiac disease. He has issues that
cleared up within days of giving up gluten.  Then there are people who
are convinced that gluten is bad for you even if they aren't gluten
intolerant.  Get a group of young people together and you are bound to
get several vegetarians, a vegan or two, some who are  gluten intolerant
and some who are lactose intolerant.

Of course there are people like that. But don't get me started on
Vegans who believe eating honey is harmful to the bees and one shouldn't
milk cows (for some silly reason) because it's somehow harmful to them.

The dairy industry's a very nasty industry, and not because of the
milking. I'm not a vegan but I understand why people are.

Post by Jill McQuown
Don't eat cheese! But sure, we'll make up some fake Vegan cheese that
contains a ton of vegetable oil and preservatives and stuff that maybe
makes it taste a little bit like cheese. WTF? I don't want to hear
that kind of preaching about food. Eat whatever you want, but don't
bitch at me for what I eat.

You're abusing animals. Why can't people preach about that? Wouldn't
you preach if you saw your neighbour beat up their little girl all the
time?

Post by Jill McQuown
Don't want to hear about any fad diet
trends, either. I eat what I want, when I want. Moderation is the key.

Fad diets are for people who can't control how much they eat. It's
their only way not to become overweight. In an ideal world, they'd
simply eat a lot less, but not everybody has that kind of self
control.

[D]

want to hear about any fad diet trends, either. I eat what I want, when I
want. Moderation is the key.
Jill

This is the way! I converted a vegan once to eating meat. It is one of my many
proud moments! =)

[songbird]

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Dave Smith
.

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Only heated up what was left over from lunch. :)

I'm not worried about gluten.  I don't know what you had for lunch.

Pretty much nobody is.

I know there are some people who are gluten intolerant.  Celiac
Disease.   I'm not one of those people.

Last summer my son was diagnosed with celiac disease. He has issues that
cleared up within days of giving up gluten.  Then there are people who
are convinced that gluten is bad for you even if they aren't gluten
intolerant.  Get a group of young people together and you are bound to
get several vegetarians, a vegan or two, some who are  gluten intolerant
and some who are lactose intolerant.

Of course there are people like that. But don't get me started on
Vegans who believe eating honey is harmful to the bees and one shouldn't
milk cows (for some silly reason) because it's somehow harmful to them.

those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Post by Jill McQuown
Don't eat cheese! But sure, we'll make up some fake Vegan cheese that
contains a ton of vegetable oil and preservatives and stuff that maybe
makes it taste a little bit like cheese. WTF? I don't want to hear
that kind of preaching about food. Eat whatever you want, but don't
bitch at me for what I eat. Don't want to hear about any fad diet
trends, either. I eat what I want, when I want. Moderation is the key.

ok. i'm fine with people who want to be kind to animals
and who pay attention to what is going on with the planet
earth.

one aspect of sustainable living is not trashing your
environment - raising animals for meat and dairy does cause
as lot of damage (and the pace of destruction is not in
decline). so eventually there will be a reconning. maybe
not in my lifetime, but eventually...

i know i'm doing my part in the face of rampant gluttony
and destruction, but i also have no illusion that my efforts
are much other than a very isolated and minor part - but i
am glad to see that some animals do find sanctuary and
relatively clean food here and as long as they aren't trying
to eat all my own crops they're welcome.

as for bees and beekeepers. we have hives placed on the
edge of our property (without being consulted or given
consideration) and it causes us problems at times. the bird-
baths can be swarmed by thirsty bees to the point the birds
won't use them. beyond that they've blocked access to our
property back there and they've also left a mess behind so
now i have to call the neighbor and talk to him (again) and
get things dealt with. native bees have to now compete with
all these honey bees - luckily we do have billions of flowers
so there is plenty to go around, but all these extra bees do
change the dynamics of what i'm seeing.


songbird

[Cindy Hamilton]

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

[Bruce]

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 17:05:26 -0000 (UTC), Cindy Hamilton

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

Often killing's involved indirectly. Where does the cow go when her
milk production goes down due to age? Or the chicken when her egg
production goes down? Where do the bulls and the roosters go? The
dairy and egg industry kill animals too. Should a vegetarian consume
dairy and eggs then?

[Ed P]

Post by Bruce
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 17:05:26 -0000 (UTC), Cindy Hamilton

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

Often killing's involved indirectly. Where does the cow go when her
milk production goes down due to age? Or the chicken when her egg
production goes down? Where do the bulls and the roosters go? The
dairy and egg industry kill animals too. Should a vegetarian consume
dairy and eggs then?

Cows no longer good for milk become ground beef or pet food. They are
not so suitable for prime steaks.

That brings up some interesting questions. If, globally, we all became
vegans, what do we do with the existing animals raised for food? One
last big bbq? Let them go in the wild?

Should we have carnivorous pets? Should we have any animals as pets?
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?

Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

[Bruce]

Post by Ed P

Post by Bruce
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 17:05:26 -0000 (UTC), Cindy Hamilton

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

Often killing's involved indirectly. Where does the cow go when her
milk production goes down due to age? Or the chicken when her egg
production goes down? Where do the bulls and the roosters go? The
dairy and egg industry kill animals too. Should a vegetarian consume
dairy and eggs then?

Cows no longer good for milk become ground beef or pet food. They are
not so suitable for prime steaks.

That's what I mean, they get killed.

Post by Ed P
That brings up some interesting questions. If, globally, we all became
vegans, what do we do with the existing animals raised for food? One
last big bbq? Let them go in the wild?

Let them live out their lives.

Post by Ed P
Should we have carnivorous pets? Should we have any animals as pets?
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?

Horse racing for sure. For the others I'd ask the opinion of an expert
on animal welfare.

Post by Ed P
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

Are you saying we have to continue eating meat to pay homage to our
Cro-Magnon years?

[Ed P]

Post by Bruce

Post by Ed P
Should we have carnivorous pets? Should we have any animals as pets?
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?

Horse racing for sure. For the others I'd ask the opinion of an expert
on animal welfare.

Most pets are well cared for. We do use dogs for a variety of working
function and some disabled people really need them. They save lives too.
But they are well cared for too when not working.

Some horses also have somewhat important functions in police work and
transportation.

Post by Bruce

Post by Ed P
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

Are you saying we have to continue eating meat to pay homage to our
Cro-Magnon years?

Evolution is slow. Some are now in the Cro-MAGA years.

[Bruce]

Post by Ed P

Post by Bruce

Post by Ed P
Should we have carnivorous pets? Should we have any animals as pets?
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?

Horse racing for sure. For the others I'd ask the opinion of an expert
on animal welfare.

Most pets are well cared for. We do use dogs for a variety of working
function and some disabled people really need them. They save lives too.
But they are well cared for too when not working.

I'm not against service dogs :)

Post by Ed P
Some horses also have somewhat important functions in police work and
transportation.

That's useful and they're generally treated well. Horse racing's
another story.

Post by Ed P

Post by Bruce

Post by Ed P
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

Are you saying we have to continue eating meat to pay homage to our
Cro-Magnon years?

Evolution is slow. Some are now in the Cro-MAGA years.

That's true. Vegetarians and vegans are ahead of us in evolution :)
But what to make of a vegan Trump supporter?

[Graham]

Post by Bruce

Post by Ed P

Post by Bruce

Post by Ed P
Should we have carnivorous pets? Should we have any animals as pets?
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?

Horse racing for sure. For the others I'd ask the opinion of an expert
on animal welfare.

Most pets are well cared for. We do use dogs for a variety of working
function and some disabled people really need them. They save lives too.
But they are well cared for too when not working.

I'm not against service dogs :)

Post by Ed P
Some horses also have somewhat important functions in police work and
transportation.

That's useful and they're generally treated well. Horse racing's
another story.

Post by Ed P

Post by Bruce

Post by Ed P
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

Are you saying we have to continue eating meat to pay homage to our
Cro-Magnon years?

Evolution is slow. Some are now in the Cro-MAGA years.

That's true. Vegetarians and vegans are ahead of us in evolution :)
But what to make of a vegan Trump supporter?

Well they were nuts to start with.

[Bruce]

Post by Graham

Post by Bruce

Post by Ed P

Post by Bruce

Post by Ed P
Should we have carnivorous pets? Should we have any animals as pets?
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?

Horse racing for sure. For the others I'd ask the opinion of an expert
on animal welfare.

Most pets are well cared for. We do use dogs for a variety of working
function and some disabled people really need them. They save lives too.
But they are well cared for too when not working.

I'm not against service dogs :)

Post by Ed P
Some horses also have somewhat important functions in police work and
transportation.

That's useful and they're generally treated well. Horse racing's
another story.

Post by Ed P

Post by Bruce

Post by Ed P
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

Are you saying we have to continue eating meat to pay homage to our
Cro-Magnon years?

Evolution is slow. Some are now in the Cro-MAGA years.

That's true. Vegetarians and vegans are ahead of us in evolution :)
But what to make of a vegan Trump supporter?

Well they were nuts to start with.

They are what they eat.

[Dave Smith]

That brings up some interesting questions.  If, globally, we all became
vegans, what do we do with the existing animals raised for food?  One
last big bbq?  Let them go in the wild?
Should we have carnivorous pets?  Should we have any animals as pets?
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

Wee have evolved from many generations of hunter gathers who lived on
what they could find in their environment. Grains, seeds, fruits and
vegetables are only available seasonally. Think of the people in far
northern areas that have little or no vegetation even at the time of
year that would be growing season in warmer climates. In the far north
of Canada there are a few berries around, but the traditional diet of
the Inuit was basically fish, meat and fat.

[Bruce]

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 16:07:27 -0500, Dave Smith

Post by Dave Smith

That brings up some interesting questions.  If, globally, we all became
vegans, what do we do with the existing animals raised for food?  One
last big bbq?  Let them go in the wild?
Should we have carnivorous pets?  Should we have any animals as pets?
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

Wee have evolved from many generations of hunter gathers who lived on
what they could find in their environment. Grains, seeds, fruits and
vegetables are only available seasonally. Think of the people in far
northern areas that have little or no vegetation even at the time of
year that would be growing season in warmer climates. In the far north
of Canada there are a few berries around, but the traditional diet of
the Inuit was basically fish, meat and fat.

And therefore...?

[Graham]

Post by Dave Smith

That brings up some interesting questions.  If, globally, we all
became vegans, what do we do with the existing animals raised for
food?  One last big bbq?  Let them go in the wild?
Should we have carnivorous pets?  Should we have any animals as pets?
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

Wee have evolved from many generations of hunter gathers who lived on
what they could find in their  environment. Grains, seeds, fruits and
vegetables are only available seasonally. Think of the people in far
northern areas that have little or no vegetation even at the time of
year that would be growing season in warmer climates. In the far north
of Canada there are a few berries  around, but the traditional diet of
the Inuit was basically fish, meat and fat.

And we have canine teeth and lack the ability to digest grass etc.

[Bruce]

Post by Graham

Post by Dave Smith

That brings up some interesting questions.  If, globally, we all
became vegans, what do we do with the existing animals raised for
food?  One last big bbq?  Let them go in the wild?
Should we have carnivorous pets?  Should we have any animals as pets?
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

Wee have evolved from many generations of hunter gathers who lived on
what they could find in their  environment. Grains, seeds, fruits and
vegetables are only available seasonally. Think of the people in far
northern areas that have little or no vegetation even at the time of
year that would be growing season in warmer climates. In the far north
of Canada there are a few berries  around, but the traditional diet of
the Inuit was basically fish, meat and fat.

And we have canine teeth and lack the ability to digest grass etc.

I don't think that vegans suggest we join the cows in the field when
we get hungry.

[songbird]

Ed P wrote:
...

Post by Ed P
Should we have carnivorous pets?

in a world which is being ravaged by greedy gluttons
nope, not any at all, not until we reduce our destruction
or balance it out with what we restore. since the chances
of humans doing this anytime within my lifetime are
unlikely it's not even something worth me really talking
about, but it is my current stance. piggies gonna pig.

Post by Ed P
Should we have any animals as pets?

low impact ones can be very useful. keeping worms to
recycle organic wastes, they're not like cats or dogs but
they can be considered pets in the way that you must take
some care of them if you keep them in a closed environment
like a bucket.

Post by Ed P
Eliminate dog shows, horse racing, polo, etc?

fine with me and many other useless sports.

Post by Ed P
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

probably not, but clearly we also could not have been
very dependent upon eating meat or we'd have never survived
the jungles. the good part is that it points to a very
sustainable way of life for people. it's ok to eat some
meat, it is not ok to eat so much that you are effectively
destroying the environment, there are many smaller animals
that will provide enough meat and they are not hard to raise.
this also implies some level of population control of both
humans and those animals.

as it is right now we're abusing our natural environment
that the carrying capacity of the planet is declining and is
likely to continue. do you know what carrying capacity means?
it means if you over exploit an area then eventually people
or other animals will also start dying off - oops. if you
want to learn about what that is like in a long term society
look into the history of famines in China. with their history
you would think they'd know better and treat their lands and
people better. nope.


songbird

[Ed P]

Post by songbird

Post by Ed P
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

probably not, but clearly we also could not have been
very dependent upon eating meat or we'd have never survived
the jungles. the good part is that it points to a very
sustainable way of life for people. it's ok to eat some
meat, it is not ok to eat so much that you are effectively
destroying the environment, there are many smaller animals
that will provide enough meat and they are not hard to raise.
this also implies some level of population control of both
humans and those animals.
as it is right now we're abusing our natural environment
that the carrying capacity of the planet is declining and is
likely to continue. do you know what carrying capacity means?
it means if you over exploit an area then eventually people
or other animals will also start dying off - oops. if you
want to learn about what that is like in a long term society
look into the history of famines in China. with their history
you would think they'd know better and treat their lands and
people better. nope.
songbird

Meat is that stuff nicely packaged in the refrigerated case at the
supermarket. Are you saying it comes from animals? Eeeeeewwww

I imagine we'd have more vegetarians if the school class trip took kids
through the process of how animals are raised and then butchered.
California has some laws not that specify how pigs and chickens must be
raised with more space.

I've drastically reduced my meat consumption and try to be a bit more
selective of source.

[Bruce]

Post by Ed P

Post by songbird

Post by Ed P
Would the human race have survived if along the various stages of
developing man it was not omnivorous?

probably not, but clearly we also could not have been
very dependent upon eating meat or we'd have never survived
the jungles. the good part is that it points to a very
sustainable way of life for people. it's ok to eat some
meat, it is not ok to eat so much that you are effectively
destroying the environment, there are many smaller animals
that will provide enough meat and they are not hard to raise.
this also implies some level of population control of both
humans and those animals.
as it is right now we're abusing our natural environment
that the carrying capacity of the planet is declining and is
likely to continue. do you know what carrying capacity means?
it means if you over exploit an area then eventually people
or other animals will also start dying off - oops. if you
want to learn about what that is like in a long term society
look into the history of famines in China. with their history
you would think they'd know better and treat their lands and
people better. nope.
songbird

Meat is that stuff nicely packaged in the refrigerated case at the
supermarket. Are you saying it comes from animals? Eeeeeewwww
I imagine we'd have more vegetarians if the school class trip took kids
through the process of how animals are raised and then butchered.

Amen.

Post by Ed P
California has some laws not that specify how pigs and chickens must be
raised with more space.
I've drastically reduced my meat consumption and try to be a bit more
selective of source.

Compare that to people like Bryan, who only care about the price.

[Cindy Hamilton]

Post by Ed P
I imagine we'd have more vegetarians if the school class trip took kids
through the process of how animals are raised and then butchered.
California has some laws not that specify how pigs and chickens must be
raised with more space.

Not just California. Michigan now has a "cage-free" requirement
for eggs.

Of course, the local GOP are trying to blame _that_ for the increase
in egg prices, rather than avian flu. Someone should tell them that
the store-brand eggs at the second-largest chain in the state have
been cage-free and the cheapest ones for several years.

[songbird]

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by Ed P
I imagine we'd have more vegetarians if the school class trip took kids
through the process of how animals are raised and then butchered.
California has some laws not that specify how pigs and chickens must be
raised with more space.

Not just California. Michigan now has a "cage-free" requirement
for eggs.

https://www.michigan.gov/mdard/food-dairy/foodlaw/cage-free-egg-law

Post by Cindy Hamilton
Of course, the local GOP are trying to blame _that_ for the increase
in egg prices, rather than avian flu. Someone should tell them that
the store-brand eggs at the second-largest chain in the state have
been cage-free and the cheapest ones for several years.

sadly they are a bad joke. i no longer pay any attention to
their antics as it seems to be about all they accomplish.


songbird

[Janet]

In article <vnpajl$v9dj$***@dont-email.me>, ***@snet.n
says...

Post by Ed P
I imagine we'd have more vegetarians if the school class trip took kids
through the process of how animals are raised and then butchered.

Far better for people to be shown/informed about best
practice in the raising and processing of all their food,
animal and plants.


Janet UK

[Leonard Blaisdell]

Post by songbird
as it is right now we're abusing our natural environment
that the carrying capacity of the planet is declining and is
likely to continue. do you know what carrying capacity means?
it means if you over exploit an area then eventually people
or other animals will also start dying off - oops. if you
want to learn about what that is like in a long term society
look into the history of famines in China. with their history
you would think they'd know better and treat their lands and
people better. nope.

Ah, a Malthusian. Good for you.

leo

[gm]

Post by Leonard Blaisdell

Post by songbird
as it is right now we're abusing our natural environment
that the carrying capacity of the planet is declining and is
likely to continue. do you know what carrying capacity means?
it means if you over exploit an area then eventually people
or other animals will also start dying off - oops. if you
want to learn about what that is like in a long term society
look into the history of famines in China. with their history
you would think they'd know better and treat their lands and
people better. nope.

Ah, a Malthusian. Good for you

Hmmm... how many famines in China have there been "lately"...???

"To survive the c. 1960 Great Famine, people had to resort to every
possible means, from eating soil and poisons to stealing and killing and
even to eating human flesh. Yang Jisheng, a retired Chinese reporter,
said "Parents ate their own kids. Kids ate their own parents...

And we couldn't have imagined there was still grain in the warehouses.
At the worst time, the government WAS STILL EXPORTING grain."...

Due to the scale of the famine, some have speculated that the resulting
cannibalism could be described as "on a scale unprecedented in the
history of the 20th century..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

Great Chinese Famine

"he Great Chinese Famine (Chinese: 三年大饥荒; lit. 'three years of great
famine') was a famine that occurred between 1959 and 1961 in the
People's Republic of China (PRC)...

Some scholars have also included the years 1958 or 1962...

It is widely regarded as the deadliest famine and one of the greatest
man-made disasters in human history, with an estimated death toll due to
starvation that ranges in the tens of millions (15 to 55 million).[note
1] The most stricken provinces were Anhui (18% dead), Chongqing (15%),
Sichuan (13%), Guizhou (11%) and Hunan (8%)...

The major contributing factors in the famine were the policies of the
Great Leap Forward (1958 to 1962) and people's communes, launched by
Chairman of the Chinese Communist Party Mao Zedong, such as inefficient
distribution of food within the nation's planned economy; requiring the
use of poor agricultural techniques; the Four Pests campaign that
reduced sparrow populations (which disrupted the ecosystem);
over-reporting of grain production; and ordering millions of farmers to
switch to iron and steel production...

During the Seven Thousand Cadres Conference in early 1962, Liu Shaoqi,
then President of China, formally attributed 30% of the famine to
natural disasters and 70% to man-made errors ("三分天灾, 七分人祸")...

After the launch of Reforms and Opening Up, the Chinese Communist Party
(CCP) officially stated in June 1981 that the famine was mainly due to
the mistakes of the Great Leap Forward as well as the Anti-Right
Deviation Struggle, in addition to some natural disasters and the
Sino-Soviet split..."

:-(

--
GM

--

[gm]

Post by Leonard Blaisdell

Post by songbird
as it is right now we're abusing our natural environment
that the carrying capacity of the planet is declining and is
likely to continue. do you know what carrying capacity means?
it means if you over exploit an area then eventually people
or other animals will also start dying off - oops. if you
want to learn about what that is like in a long term society
look into the history of famines in China. with their history
you would think they'd know better and treat their lands and
people better. nope.

Ah, a Malthusian. Good for you.

Ah, remember "The Population Bomb"...???

"Jonathan Last called it "one of the most spectacularly foolish books
ever published... One frequent criticism of The Population Bomb is that
it focused on spectacle and exaggeration at the expense of accuracy..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb

"The Population Bomb is a 1968 book co-authored by former Stanford
University professor Paul R. Ehrlich and former Stanford senior
researcher in conservation biology Anne H. Ehrlich. From the opening
page, it predicted worldwide famines due to overpopulation, as well as
other major societal upheavals, and advocated immediate action to limit
population growth...

In The Population Bomb's opening lines the authors state that nothing
can prevent famines in which hundreds of millions of people will die
during the 1970s (amended to 1970s and 1980s in later editions), and
that there would be "a substantial increase in the world death rate."
Although many lives could be saved through dramatic action, it was
already too late to prevent a substantial increase in the global death
rate...

However, in reality the global death rate has continued to decline
substantially since then, from 13/1000 in 1965–74 to 10/1000 from
1985–1990. Meanwhile, the population of the world has more than doubled,
while calories consumed/person have increased 24%...

As of 2010, India had almost 1.2 billion people, having nearly tripled
its population from around 400 million in 1960, with a total fertility
rate in 2008 of 2.6. While the absolute numbers of malnourished children
in India is high, the rates of malnutrition and poverty in India have
declined from approximately 90% at the time of India's independence
(1947), to less than 40% in 2010..."

--
GM

--

[Jill McQuown]

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

That's a great way to explain it! A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes. They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan. She asked if I ever cook vegan
food. I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

Jill

[Dave Smith]

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal.  Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

That's a great way to explain it!  A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes.  They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan.  She asked if I ever cook vegan
food.  I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

I have a number of vegetarian recipes in my repertoire. We were eating
them as part of the heart healthy thing which we sort of slipped away
from. I had been thinking about getting back to them. Last night I did
the vegetarian pizza. Maybe this week I will do the chick pea curry.


I have no problem with people eating vegetarian meals or living on a
vegetarian diet. I don't want to hear the moral superiority nonsense. I
also have issues with the faux meat grab. If you don't want to eat meat
eat vegetables and legumes. There is no need to process vegetables and
stuff to make something that you think feels and tastes like meat. If
you want that taste and feel of meat, eat meat.

[Bruce]

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 17:21:31 -0500, Dave Smith

Post by Dave Smith

That's a great way to explain it!  A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes.  They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan.  She asked if I ever cook vegan
food.  I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

I have a number of vegetarian recipes in my repertoire. We were eating
them as part of the heart healthy thing which we sort of slipped away
from. I had been thinking about getting back to them. Last night I did
the vegetarian pizza. Maybe this week I will do the chick pea curry.
I have no problem with people eating vegetarian meals or living on a
vegetarian diet. I don't want to hear the moral superiority nonsense.

Nevertheless, meat eaters are morally inferior. Or, at least, it's a
strike against them.

Post by Dave Smith
I also have issues with the faux meat grab. If you don't want to eat meat
eat vegetables and legumes. There is no need to process vegetables and
stuff to make something that you think feels and tastes like meat. If
you want that taste and feel of meat, eat meat.

I like the taste of meat but I don't want to kill for it. Is that so
hard to understand? Must be that moral inferiority playing up again.

[Hank Rogers]

Post by Bruce
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 17:21:31 -0500, Dave Smith

Post by Dave Smith

That's a great way to explain it!  A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes.  They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan.  She asked if I ever cook vegan
food.  I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

I have a number of vegetarian recipes in my repertoire. We were eating
them as part of the heart healthy thing which we sort of slipped away
from. I had been thinking about getting back to them. Last night I did
the vegetarian pizza. Maybe this week I will do the chick pea curry.
I have no problem with people eating vegetarian meals or living on a
vegetarian diet. I don't want to hear the moral superiority nonsense.

Nevertheless, meat eaters are morally inferior. Or, at least, it's a
strike against them.

Post by Dave Smith
I also have issues with the faux meat grab. If you don't want to eat meat
eat vegetables and legumes. There is no need to process vegetables and
stuff to make something that you think feels and tastes like meat. If
you want that taste and feel of meat, eat meat.

I like the taste of meat but I don't want to kill for it.

You don't have to. Lots of stores sell it, Master.

[Bruce]

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 16:56:56 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

That's a great way to explain it! A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes. They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan. She asked if I ever cook vegan
food. I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

That's saying something because it seems very rare for you not to have
a problem laughing.

[Cindy Hamilton]

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

That's a great way to explain it! A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes. They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan. She asked if I ever cook vegan
food. I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

Almost all of us cook vegan food from time to time. I have a
lentil soup recipe that's vegan.

[Bruce]

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 22:37:53 -0000 (UTC), Cindy Hamilton

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

That's a great way to explain it! A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes. They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan. She asked if I ever cook vegan
food. I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

Almost all of us cook vegan food from time to time. I have a
lentil soup recipe that's vegan.

Jill can't stop laughing now.

[Jill McQuown]

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

That's a great way to explain it! A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes. They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan. She asked if I ever cook vegan
food. I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

Almost all of us cook vegan food from time to time. I have a
lentil soup recipe that's vegan.

Speak for yourself. My lentil soup recipe calls for chicken stock.

Jill

[Bruce]

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 21:32:42 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

That's a great way to explain it! A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes. They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan. She asked if I ever cook vegan
food. I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

Almost all of us cook vegan food from time to time. I have a
lentil soup recipe that's vegan.

Speak for yourself. My lentil soup recipe calls for chicken stock.

And if you'd deviate from your recipe, terrible things would happen?

[Cindy Hamilton]

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

That's a great way to explain it! A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes. They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan. She asked if I ever cook vegan
food. I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

Almost all of us cook vegan food from time to time. I have a
lentil soup recipe that's vegan.

Speak for yourself. My lentil soup recipe calls for chicken stock.

Of course I was speaking for myself. Who else would I be speaking
for?

Don't you have any recipes that call for no meat or dairy?

[songbird]

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

That's a great way to explain it!

not really. you can kill animals with air, water or many
other natural things that we consume all the time.

Post by Jill McQuown
A woman in the building where I work
has tried tried a couple of my recipes. They just so happened not to
contain meat (my yellow squash casserole recipe and spinach & feta
quiche) but were definitely not vegan. She asked if I ever cook vegan
food. I know she's not a vegan or even a vegetarian so I had no problem
laughing.

i don't have any problems with those who wish to push it as
far as they want as long as they are not harming others - they
may end harming themselves if they don't watch their nutrient
levels of certain things, but i'd hope they were doing it with
some knowledge of what they'd need to remain healthy.

personally i'm ok with eating some dairy and some meat but
they are not the primary parts of my diet. i'd eat more
chicken if it weren't so full of contaminants that it makes
me ill on a regular basis - in the meantime i'll stick to
sardines and some beef once in a while and get more of my
protein from beans and other legumes. i also don't eat a lot
of honey. probably my biggest vices in terms of sustainability
would be chocolate and sugar and those are both possible to
source ethically.


songbird

[Jill McQuown]

Post by songbird

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by songbird
those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Vegetarians won't consume anything that kills an animal. Vegans
won't consume anything that inconveniences an animal.

That's a great way to explain it!

not really. you can kill animals with air, water or many
other natural things that we consume all the time.

(snippage)

Post by songbird
songbird

Good lord, you're boring.

Jill

[songbird]

Jill McQuown wrote:
...

Post by Jill McQuown
Good lord, you're boring.

did you vote for DJT?


songbird

[Jill McQuown]

Post by songbird
...

Post by Jill McQuown
Good lord, you're boring.

did you vote for DJT?
songbird

Certainly not. You're still boring.

Jill

[Bruce]

On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 12:47:09 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by songbird
...

Post by Jill McQuown
Good lord, you're boring.

did you vote for DJT?
songbird

Certainly not. You're still boring.

Why do you keep saying that? He's not Dave Smith.

[Dave Smith]

Post by songbird

Post by Jill McQuown
Of course there are people like that. But don't get me started on
Vegans who believe eating honey is harmful to the bees and one shouldn't
milk cows (for some silly reason) because it's somehow harmful to them.

those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Bees are basically living a natural life. They are provided with hives
to live in instead of having to find their own in place where they can
be easily preyed upon. They are located close to a food supply and then
they go out do what comes naturally for bees. It is really strange that
vegans won't eat honey because they don't want to take advantage of the
bees' labour but they don't have any problems taking advantage of the
people who slave in the hot sun working for peanuts.

Post by songbird

Post by Jill McQuown
Don't eat cheese! But sure, we'll make up some fake Vegan cheese that
contains a ton of vegetable oil and preservatives and stuff that maybe
makes it taste a little bit like cheese. WTF? I don't want to hear
that kind of preaching about food. Eat whatever you want, but don't
bitch at me for what I eat. Don't want to hear about any fad diet
trends, either. I eat what I want, when I want. Moderation is the key.

ok. i'm fine with people who want to be kind to animals
and who pay attention to what is going on with the planet
earth.
one aspect of sustainable living is not trashing your
environment - raising animals for meat and dairy does cause
as lot of damage (and the pace of destruction is not in
decline). so eventually there will be a reconning. maybe
not in my lifetime, but eventually...
i know i'm doing my part in the face of rampant gluttony
and destruction, but i also have no illusion that my efforts
are much other than a very isolated and minor part - but i
am glad to see that some animals do find sanctuary and
relatively clean food here and as long as they aren't trying
to eat all my own crops they're welcome.
as for bees and beekeepers. we have hives placed on the
edge of our property (without being consulted or given
consideration) and it causes us problems at times. the bird-
baths can be swarmed by thirsty bees to the point the birds
won't use them. beyond that they've blocked access to our
property back there and they've also left a mess behind so
now i have to call the neighbor and talk to him (again) and
get things dealt with. native bees have to now compete with
all these honey bees - luckily we do have billions of flowers
so there is plenty to go around, but all these extra bees do
change the dynamics of what i'm seeing.
songbird

[Bruce]

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 12:05:40 -0500, Dave Smith

Post by Dave Smith

Post by songbird

Post by Jill McQuown
Of course there are people like that. But don't get me started on
Vegans who believe eating honey is harmful to the bees and one shouldn't
milk cows (for some silly reason) because it's somehow harmful to them.

those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Bees are basically living a natural life. They are provided with hives
to live in instead of having to find their own in place where they can
be easily preyed upon. They are located close to a food supply and then
they go out do what comes naturally for bees. It is really strange that
vegans won't eat honey because they don't want to take advantage of the
bees' labour but they don't have any problems taking advantage of the
people who slave in the hot sun working for peanuts.

At least they think about things. You stuff anything into your pie
hole and then criticise others.

[songbird]

Post by Dave Smith

Post by songbird

Post by Jill McQuown
Of course there are people like that. But don't get me started on
Vegans who believe eating honey is harmful to the bees and one shouldn't
milk cows (for some silly reason) because it's somehow harmful to them.

those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Bees are basically living a natural life. They are provided with hives
to live in instead of having to find their own in place where they can
be easily preyed upon.

honey bees are most definitely not living a natural life.
in fact in some areas people who try to raise and keep bees
using natural methods are prosecuted or harrassed.

Post by Dave Smith
They are located close to a food supply and then
they go out do what comes naturally for bees. It is really strange that
vegans won't eat honey because they don't want to take advantage of the
bees' labour but they don't have any problems taking advantage of the
people who slave in the hot sun working for peanuts.

you make such strange statements. if someone is concerned
about the ethics of harming animals they are also likely to be
paying attention to human ethical problems as humans are also
animals...


songbird

[Dave Smith]

Post by songbird

Post by Dave Smith

Post by songbird

Post by Jill McQuown
Of course there are people like that. But don't get me started on
Vegans who believe eating honey is harmful to the bees and one shouldn't
milk cows (for some silly reason) because it's somehow harmful to them.

those are likely both somewhat ethics issues as the bees living
a natural life would not be exploited by humans (bears and other
animals have no problems with ethics) and baby cows killed for
eating as veal would not happen.

Bees are basically living a natural life. They are provided with hives
to live in instead of having to find their own in place where they can
be easily preyed upon.

honey bees are most definitely not living a natural life.
in fact in some areas people who try to raise and keep bees
using natural methods are prosecuted or harrassed.

Post by Dave Smith
They are located close to a food supply and then
they go out do what comes naturally for bees. It is really strange that
vegans won't eat honey because they don't want to take advantage of the
bees' labour but they don't have any problems taking advantage of the
people who slave in the hot sun working for peanuts.

you make such strange statements. if someone is concerned
about the ethics of harming animals they are also likely to be
paying attention to human ethical problems as humans are also
animals...

Other than living in a man made hive and being relocated to places with
lots of flowers blooming and in need of pollination, how is their life
of collecting nectar and bringing it back to be stored in cells not
natural? Their entire life purpose is to collect that nectar, ingest it
and then to puke it back into cells.

[Jill McQuown]

Other than living in a man made hive and  being relocated to places with
lots of flowers blooming and in need of pollination, how is their life
of collecting nectar and bringing it back to be stored in cells not
natural? Their entire life purpose is to collect that nectar, ingest it
and then to puke it back into cells.

I don't pay much attention to songbirds pontificating. He thinks he's
got some sort of key to a natural life going on because he has a garden
in the summer. At the same time, he's eating canned SpaghettiO's
because his mother buys it. Go figure.

Jill

[songbird]

Jill McQuown wrote:
...

Post by Jill McQuown
I don't pay much attention to songbirds pontificating. He thinks he's
got some sort of key to a natural life going on because he has a garden
in the summer. At the same time, he's eating canned SpaghettiO's
because his mother buys it. Go figure.

haha, you have a bee up your knickers about me.

i actually do know enough about bees to where it's pretty
clear that Dave doesn't know much at all about them. he has
a chance to learn. i doubt you care at all.

do you think someone who's been paying attention to natural
science for more than 50yrs has a better understanding than
your average schmoe who doesn't get beyond the tv news?

i doubt you've done much analysis at all on what kind of
energy a typical meal you eat actually consumes or the wastes
involved in producing it. i'm pretty sure a can of S'-o's
and meat balls will come out way lower impact. especially
if you count that the can will be recycled. i'm very happy
if most of my meals are inexpensive and have relatively low
impact on the planet.


songbird

[Cindy Hamilton]

Post by songbird
...

Post by Jill McQuown
I don't pay much attention to songbirds pontificating. He thinks he's
got some sort of key to a natural life going on because he has a garden
in the summer. At the same time, he's eating canned SpaghettiO's
because his mother buys it. Go figure.

haha, you have a bee up your knickers about me.
i actually do know enough about bees to where it's pretty
clear that Dave doesn't know much at all about them. he has
a chance to learn. i doubt you care at all.
do you think someone who's been paying attention to natural
science for more than 50yrs has a better understanding than
your average schmoe who doesn't get beyond the tv news?
i doubt you've done much analysis at all on what kind of
energy a typical meal you eat actually consumes or the wastes
involved in producing it. i'm pretty sure a can of S'-o's
and meat balls will come out way lower impact. especially

"I'm pretty sure" isn't evidence.

[songbird]

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
...

Post by Cindy Hamilton
"I'm pretty sure" isn't evidence.

that's ok, i'm not writing scientific papers here...


songbird

[Cindy Hamilton]

Post by songbird
...

Post by Cindy Hamilton
"I'm pretty sure" isn't evidence.

that's ok, i'm not writing scientific papers here...

Granted. But it's not a very convincing statement. It's
almost as if you don't believe yourself.

[Jill McQuown]

...

Post by Jill McQuown
I don't pay much attention to songbirds pontificating. He thinks he's
got some sort of key to a natural life going on because he has a garden
in the summer. At the same time, he's eating canned SpaghettiO's
because his mother buys it. Go figure.

haha, you have a bee up your knickers about me. (snippage)
songbird

Not really. Just not many of your long-winded rants make any sense to me.

Jill

[songbird]

Dave Smith wrote:
...

Post by Dave Smith
Other than living in a man made hive and being relocated to places with
lots of flowers blooming and in need of pollination, how is their life
of collecting nectar and bringing it back to be stored in cells not
natural? Their entire life purpose is to collect that nectar, ingest it
and then to puke it back into cells.

you've never studied beekeeping, you've never kept a hive
or paid any attention to what it takes to keep those "naturally
living bees" alive. nor have you paid any attention to the
diseases and issues of keeping bees that have been available
in the news.

that's all your statements are showing to me at the moment.


songbird

[Jill McQuown]

Post by songbird
you make such strange statements. if someone is concerned
about the ethics of harming animals they are also likely to be
paying attention to human ethical problems as humans are also
animals...
songbird

So says the person who thinks typing with capital letters is some sort
of hardship.

Jill

[songbird]

Jill McQuown wrote:
...

Post by Jill McQuown
So says the person who thinks typing with capital letters is some sort
of hardship.

boohoo!


songbird

[Janet]

Post by songbird
as for bees and beekeepers. we have hives placed on the
edge of our property (without being consulted or given
consideration) and it causes us problems at times. the bird-
baths can be swarmed by thirsty bees to the point the birds
won't use them. beyond that they've blocked access to our
property back there and they've also left a mess behind so
now i have to call the neighbor and talk to him (again) and
get things dealt with.

You already "talked to him" and he didn't listen.

I'd deal with it myself .... one dark night when all the
bees were at home in their hive, they would fall asleep
forever.


Janet UK

[Dave Smith]

Post by Janet

Post by songbird
as for bees and beekeepers. we have hives placed on the
edge of our property (without being consulted or given
consideration) and it causes us problems at times. the bird-
baths can be swarmed by thirsty bees to the point the birds
won't use them. beyond that they've blocked access to our
property back there and they've also left a mess behind so
now i have to call the neighbor and talk to him (again) and
get things dealt with.

You already "talked to him" and he didn't listen.
I'd deal with it myself .... one dark night when all the
bees were at home in their hive, they would fall asleep
forever.

Some jurisdictions have regulations requiring that hives be a certain
distance from property lines. It was an issue for our neighbours last
year. Some authority came by to investigate a complaint about the hives
being too close to the properly line. We have no idea who complained.
It wasn't us and the guy on the other side of him said it wasn't him.
Apparently it was not farmer John who owns the nursery.


Just looked it up here. The Bee Act requires that hives have to be 30
metres from any property line of a property that has a dwelling on it.

[songbird]

Post by Janet

Post by songbird
as for bees and beekeepers. we have hives placed on the
edge of our property (without being consulted or given
consideration) and it causes us problems at times. the bird-
baths can be swarmed by thirsty bees to the point the birds
won't use them. beyond that they've blocked access to our
property back there and they've also left a mess behind so
now i have to call the neighbor and talk to him (again) and
get things dealt with.

You already "talked to him" and he didn't listen.
I'd deal with it myself .... one dark night when all the
bees were at home in their hive, they would fall asleep
forever.

this isn't one hive. it's several dozen.

besides i don't harm animals if i can help it.
there's no way i would even think of doing that to these
hives.

i have not talked to the beekeeper - i've talked to the
land-owner and he said he'd talk to the beekeeper. next
time i talk to the land-owner i'm going to get the name
of the beekeeper and make sure to talk to him. that will
be happening soon since i'd like to get some things done
back there before the ground thaws.


songbird

[Janet]

Post by songbird

Post by Janet

Post by songbird
we have hives placed on the
edge of our property (without being consulted or given
consideration) and it causes us problems at times. the bird-
baths can be swarmed by thirsty bees to the point the birds
won't use them. beyond that they've blocked access to our
property back there and they've also left a mess behind so
now i have to call the neighbor and talk to him (again) and
get things dealt with.

You already "talked to him" and he didn't listen.

i have not talked to the beekeeper - i've talked to the
land-owner

Ah, that wasn't clear.

Above, you said the hives were placed on your property
without your permission, and have blocked access to your
property and left a mess on it.

Now you're saying its not your property, the hives
(and the associated mess you complain of) are on land
owned by a neighbour.

Janet UK

[Jill McQuown]

Post by Janet

Post by songbird

Post by Janet

Post by songbird
we have hives placed on the
edge of our property (without being consulted or given
consideration) and it causes us problems at times. the bird-
baths can be swarmed by thirsty bees to the point the birds
won't use them. beyond that they've blocked access to our
property back there and they've also left a mess behind so
now i have to call the neighbor and talk to him (again) and
get things dealt with.

You already "talked to him" and he didn't listen.

i have not talked to the beekeeper - i've talked to the
land-owner

Ah, that wasn't clear.
Above, you said the hives were placed on your property
without your permission, and have blocked access to your
property and left a mess on it.
Now you're saying its not your property, the hives
(and the associated mess you complain of) are on land
owned by a neighbour.
Janet UK

Clarity is not his strong point.

Jill

[Dave Smith]

Post by Janet

Post by songbird
i have not talked to the beekeeper - i've talked to the
land-owner

Ah, that wasn't clear.
Above, you said the hives were placed on your property
without your permission, and have blocked access to your
property and left a mess on it.
Now you're saying its not your property, the hives
(and the associated mess you complain of) are on land
owned by a neighbour.

It's all pretty vague. I was under the impression that it was the edge
of his property not on it, which left me wondering how it could block
access to his property. I was also under the impression that the other
property owner had given someone permission to put the hive on his
property. It is a common practice around here for bee keepers to put
their hives on other people's farms. I don't know for sure who pays who,
whether it is the farmer who pays the beekeeper to bring his hives to
pollinate the crops or if the beekeeper pays the farmer for his bees'
access to the flowering crop.

My neighbour got into the bee business a couple years ago. It started as
a hobby and has become a business. He has one or two hives in his front
yard and has people come by to get stung as some sort of therapy. He has
a couple dozen hives in the back section. They have bought another
property to house more bees.

I know of a major honey business a few miles from here and I see their
trucks all over moving their hives from farm to farm.

[ItsJoanNotJoAnn]

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread. Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix. Probably a banana later for dessert.

[Jill McQuown]

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Jill

[Bruce]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 18:25:48 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Pah, that's not cooking!

[Salvador Mirzo]

Post by Bruce
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 18:25:48 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Pah, that's not cooking!

Yeah---off-topic here. :)

[Jill McQuown]

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Bruce
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 18:25:48 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Pah, that's not cooking!

Yeah---off-topic here. :)

Bruce is *always* off-topic here. Ask him what he cooks. He has no answer.

Jill

[Bruce]

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 13:46:39 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Bruce
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 18:25:48 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Pah, that's not cooking!

Yeah---off-topic here. :)

Bruce is *always* off-topic here. Ask him what he cooks. He has no answer.

But a narrow minded rant about vegans and fad diets is ok?

[Hank Rogers]

Post by Bruce
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 13:46:39 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Bruce
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 18:25:48 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Pah, that's not cooking!

Yeah---off-topic here. :)

Bruce is *always* off-topic here. Ask him what he cooks. He has no answer.

But a narrow minded rant about vegans and fad diets is ok?

Silence fool! Anything her Majesty wants to talk about is on-topic
here, by definition.

[Bruce]

Post by Hank Rogers

Post by Bruce
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 13:46:39 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Bruce
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 18:25:48 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Pah, that's not cooking!

Yeah---off-topic here. :)

Bruce is *always* off-topic here. Ask him what he cooks. He has no answer.

But a narrow minded rant about vegans and fad diets is ok?

Silence fool! Anything her Majesty wants to talk about is on-topic
here, by definition.

Damn, I keep forgetting.

[Salvador Mirzo]

Post by Bruce

Post by Hank Rogers

Post by Bruce
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 13:46:39 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Salvador Mirzo

Post by Bruce
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 18:25:48 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Pah, that's not cooking!

Yeah---off-topic here. :)

Bruce is *always* off-topic here. Ask him what he cooks. He has no answer.

But a narrow minded rant about vegans and fad diets is ok?

Silence fool! Anything her Majesty wants to talk about is on-topic
here, by definition.

Damn, I keep forgetting.

No fighting.
-- ``Hips Don't Lie'', Shakira, Wyclef Jean, 2006.

:)

[Dave Smith]

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

I had to give up my weakness... salted caramel and chocolate chunk ice
cream.

[Jill McQuown]

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

I had to give up my weakness... salted caramel and chocolate chunk ice
cream.

It's not as though I eat ice cream all the time. I like Espresso Chip
ice cream (kind of extreme Coffee ice cream) but lately the salted
caramel is more to my taste. Only every once in a while.

My mother loved vanilla ice cream with butterscotch topping spooned over
the top. The salted caramel tastes a bit like that.

Jill

[Bruce]

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 13:53:04 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

I had to give up my weakness... salted caramel and chocolate chunk ice
cream.

It's not as though I eat ice cream all the time. I like Espresso Chip
ice cream (kind of extreme Coffee ice cream) but lately the salted
caramel is more to my taste.

Is it salty?

[Jill McQuown]

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Sounds pretty good. :)

Salted caramel ice cream is salty and sweet. Perfect combination!

Jill

[Bruce]

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 13:45:55 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Sounds pretty good. :)

Salted caramel ice cream is salty and sweet. Perfect combination!

Salted ice cream is salty. I made a note of that.

[dsi1]

Post by Bruce
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 13:45:55 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread.  Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix.  Probably a banana later for dessert.

I'm thinking about a scoop of salted caramel ice cream for "dessert". :)

Sounds pretty good. :)

Salted caramel ice cream is salty and sweet. Perfect combination!

Salted ice cream is salty. I made a note of that.

Salt is good food. It facilitates ion exchange that's needed for taste
buds to work properly.

I was at the mall today when my blood glucose monitor went off signaling
that my level was too low. What was alarming was that my vision was
getting splotchy. I was next to a Target so I got a box of doughnuts and
a soda. I was trying to find a non-diet soda but most of the stock had
little or no sugar - 5 calories or less. I finally found a bottle of
Diet Cherry Coke with 260 calories per bottle. It was a sight for
splotchy eyes! Hopefully, Trump will ban low calorie soda, which is
obviously a DEI leftist scam!

[Bruce]

Post by dsi1

Post by Bruce
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 13:45:55 -0500, Jill McQuown

Post by Jill McQuown
Salted caramel ice cream is salty and sweet. Perfect combination!

Salted ice cream is salty. I made a note of that.

Salt is good food. It facilitates ion exchange that's needed for taste
buds to work properly.
I was at the mall today when my blood glucose monitor went off signaling
that my level was too low. What was alarming was that my vision was
getting splotchy. I was next to a Target so I got a box of doughnuts and
a soda. I was trying to find a non-diet soda but most of the stock had
little or no sugar - 5 calories or less. I finally found a bottle of
Diet Cherry Coke with 260 calories per bottle. It was a sight for
splotchy eyes! Hopefully, Trump will ban low calorie soda, which is
obviously a DEI leftist scam!

I bet it causes dwarfism.

[gm]

Post by dsi1
I was at the mall today when my blood glucose monitor went off signaling
that my level was too low. What was alarming was that my vision was
getting splotchy. I was next to a Target so I got a box of doughnuts and
a soda. I was trying to find a non-diet soda but most of the stock had
little or no sugar - 5 calories or less. I finally found a bottle of
Diet Cherry Coke with 260 calories per bottle. It was a sight for
splotchy eyes! Hopefully, Trump will ban low calorie soda, which is
obviously a DEI leftist scam!

David, GOD does NOT like peeps who LIE...!!!

WIKI:

"Diet cherry coke contains ____0 calories____ per 12 fluid ounces (354
milliliters). This is because it is sweetened with artificial
sweeteners, such as aspartame and acesulfame potassium, which do not
provide any calories..."

And THE DONALD will NOT be "banning" low calorie soda...

Trump has his famous ‘Diet Coke button’ reinstalled on Oval Office desk

https://www.wsaz.com/2025/01/22/trump-has-his-famous-diet-coke-button-reinstalled-oval-office-desk/

"WASHINGTON (CNN) - President Donald Trump’s love for Diet Coke is well
known.

So, it’s no surprise his infamous “Diet Coke button” has been
reinstalled at the Oval Office desk for his second term...

Trump used the red valet button to order Diet Cokes during his first
term between 2017 and 2021...

The Wall Street Journal, which got an inside look at the renovated
office, reports the red button was already reinstalled Monday for him to
use on his first day back at the White House...

During his first term, Trump said visitors got nervous when he pressed
the button, thinking it’s a nuclear button..."

PS:

The Bible considers lying to be a sin, and many Bible verses express
this:

Exodus 20:16: The ninth commandment states, "You shall not bear false
witness against your neighbor".

Leviticus 19:11: The Old Law states, "You shall not steal, nor deal
falsely, nor lie to one another".

Jeremiah 48:10: The Bible states, "Cursed is he who does the work of the
Lord deceitfully".


;-D

--
GM

--

[dsi1]

Post by gm
David, GOD does NOT like peeps who LIE...!!!

God loves people that see the error of their ways and repents.

Forgive me Jesus for I have made a typo. I will be more careful in my
posts. Please forgive my trespasses as I forgive the people that
trespass against me.

Amen

Let me tell you - this stuff is delicious!

https://www.target.com/p/coca-cola-cherry-20-fl-oz-bottle/-/A-12959413

[gm]

Post by dsi1

Post by gm
David, GOD does NOT like peeps who LIE...!!!

God loves people that see the error of their ways and repents.
Forgive me Jesus for I have made a typo. I will be more careful in my
posts. Please forgive my trespasses as I forgive the people that
trespass against me.
Amen

Our LORD GOD will prolly forgive ya...

But our Group Moderator HRH PRINCESS JILL will NOT...!!!

Post by dsi1
Let me tell you - this stuff is delicious!
https://www.target.com/p/coca-cola-cherry-20-fl-oz-bottle/-/A-12959413

As I write this I am drinking the diet version of this, I luvs me my
Cherry Cokes...!!!

--
GM

--

[D]

Post by dsi1
I was at the mall today when my blood glucose monitor went off signaling

This is cool! You are a cyborg David? I imagine you have some cool installed
machinery that does the monitoring!

Post by dsi1
that my level was too low. What was alarming was that my vision was
getting splotchy. I was next to a Target so I got a box of doughnuts and
a soda. I was trying to find a non-diet soda but most of the stock had
little or no sugar - 5 calories or less. I finally found a bottle of
Diet Cherry Coke with 260 calories per bottle. It was a sight for
splotchy eyes! Hopefully, Trump will ban low calorie soda, which is
obviously a DEI leftist scam!

YES! Kennedy Jr. for the win! Those diet replacements are not good for you.
Stick with good, old fashioned sugar for optimal health. =)

[Bruce]

Post by ItsJoanNotJoAnn

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread. Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix. Probably a banana later for dessert.

Don't do it Joan!

Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate:
"INGREDIENTS: CITRIC ACID, MALTODEXTRIN, ASPARTAME*, CONTAINS LESS
THAN 2% OF NATURAL FLAVOR, ASCORBIC ACID (VITAMIN C), MAGNESIUM OXIDE,
ACESULFAME POTASSIUM, BLUE 1, RED 40.* PHENYLKETONURICS: CONTAINS
PHENYLALANINE"

[Ed P]

Post by Bruce

Post by ItsJoanNotJoAnn

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread. Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix. Probably a banana later for dessert.

Don't do it Joan!
"INGREDIENTS: CITRIC ACID, MALTODEXTRIN, ASPARTAME*, CONTAINS LESS
THAN 2% OF NATURAL FLAVOR, ASCORBIC ACID (VITAMIN C), MAGNESIUM OXIDE,
ACESULFAME POTASSIUM, BLUE 1, RED 40.* PHENYLKETONURICS: CONTAINS
PHENYLALANINE"

Why? What could possibly go wrong?

Is phenylketonurics safe?
Most people don't need to worry about it. But it is an issue for people
who have a genetic condition called phenylketonuria (PKU). Genetic
conditions are passed through families. In people with PKU ,
phenylalanine can cause intellectual disability, brain damage, seizures,
and skin and other problems

Phenylalanine is an amino acid that's added to drinks and foods as a
nutritional supplement. It's also found naturally in protein-rich foods
like milk and egg

Phenylalanine can be harmful for people with phenylketonuria (PKU), a
genetic condition that prevents the body from breaking down
phenylalanine. In people with PKU, phenylalanine can cause:
Intellectual disability
Brain damage
Seizures
Skin problems
Phenylalanine can also cause side effects, including:
Heartburn
Fatigue
Nausea
Constipation
Dizziness
Headache
Anxiety and hypomania
Sedation
Jitteriness and trouble sleeping

[Bruce]

Post by Ed P
Why? What could possibly go wrong?
Is phenylketonurics safe?
Most people don't need to worry about it. But it is an issue for people
who have a genetic condition called phenylketonuria (PKU). Genetic
conditions are passed through families. In people with PKU ,
phenylalanine can cause intellectual disability, brain damage, seizures,
and skin and other problems
Phenylalanine is an amino acid that's added to drinks and foods as a
nutritional supplement. It's also found naturally in protein-rich foods
like milk and egg
Phenylalanine can be harmful for people with phenylketonuria (PKU), a
genetic condition that prevents the body from breaking down
Intellectual disability
Brain damage
Seizures
Skin problems
Heartburn
Fatigue
Nausea
Constipation
Dizziness
Headache
Anxiety and hypomania
Sedation
Jitteriness and trouble sleeping

Since both chemicals mention brain damage, it might be interesting to
test Trump voters for them.

[ItsJoanNotJoAnn]

Post by Bruce

Post by ItsJoanNotJoAnn

Post by Jill McQuown
Anything cooking at your house this Friday evening?
Jill

Leftover spaghetti and garlic bread. Drink of
choice will be Crystal Lite cherry pomegranate
drink mix. Probably a banana later for dessert.

Don't do it Joan!
"INGREDIENTS: CITRIC ACID, MALTODEXTRIN, ASPARTAME*, CONTAINS LESS
THAN 2% OF NATURAL FLAVOR, ASCORBIC ACID (VITAMIN C), MAGNESIUM OXIDE,
ACESULFAME POTASSIUM, BLUE 1, RED 40.* PHENYLKETONURICS: CONTAINS
PHENYLALANINE"

I'm not that impressed with the Crystal Light and it's
been several years since I'd made a pitcher of it. Meh.

Aspartame doesn't bother me, but if my brother uses
it, he can't remember his name. 😄 Splenda doesn't
bother him though as it's a different sweetener.