Discussion:
Is Home Depot 30% acetic acid vinegar at $20 a gallon ok to use for food
(too old to reply)
Harry S Robins
2024-09-22 17:49:06 UTC
Permalink
Is Home Depot 30% acetic acid at $20 a gallon safe & ok to use for food
and is it a better deal than the Costco two-gallon box of white vinegar?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-128-oz-30-Vinegar-All-Purpose-Cleaner-Concentrate-VINE30-128/309463051
https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/four-monks-distilled-white-vinegar%2C-1-gallon%2C-2-ct.product.11073510.html

The Home Depot vinegar says it's 30% but the Four Monks vinegar doesn't
say, nor does the Costco advertisement supply a price w/o an account.

Anyone know?
Frank
2024-09-22 18:02:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
Is Home Depot 30% acetic acid at $20 a gallon safe & ok to use for food
and is it a better deal than the Costco two-gallon box of white vinegar?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-128-oz-30-Vinegar-All-Purpose-
Cleaner-Concentrate-VINE30-128/309463051
https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/four-monks-distilled-white-
vinegar%2C-1-gallon%2C-2-ct.product.11073510.html
The Home Depot vinegar says it's 30% but the Four Monks vinegar doesn't
say, nor does the Costco advertisement supply a price w/o an account.
Anyone know?
You could cut it to food grade which is 5%. You might save a few
dollars but is it worth the effort and who uses that much vinegar.
Ed P
2024-09-22 18:03:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
Is Home Depot 30% acetic acid at $20 a gallon safe & ok to use for food
and is it a better deal than the Costco two-gallon box of white vinegar?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-128-oz-30-Vinegar-All-Purpose-
Cleaner-Concentrate-VINE30-128/309463051
https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/four-monks-distilled-white-
vinegar%2C-1-gallon%2C-2-ct.product.11073510.html
The Home Depot vinegar says it's 30% but the Four Monks vinegar doesn't
say, nor does the Costco advertisement supply a price w/o an account.
Anyone know?
Most household vinegar is 5%. You can reduce it with water.
micky
2024-09-24 20:20:35 UTC
Permalink
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 22 Sep 2024 14:03:23 -0400, Ed P
Post by Ed P
Post by Harry S Robins
Is Home Depot 30% acetic acid at $20 a gallon safe & ok to use for food
and is it a better deal than the Costco two-gallon box of white vinegar?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-128-oz-30-Vinegar-All-Purpose-
Cleaner-Concentrate-VINE30-128/309463051
https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/four-monks-distilled-white-
vinegar%2C-1-gallon%2C-2-ct.product.11073510.html
The Home Depot vinegar says it's 30% but the Four Monks vinegar doesn't
say, nor does the Costco advertisement supply a price w/o an account.
Anyone know?
Most household vinegar is 5%. You can reduce it with water.
That would give you 768 ounces. That would last you a long time, no
matter how many salad you had.
Retirednoguilt
2024-09-22 18:17:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
Is Home Depot 30% acetic acid at $20 a gallon safe & ok to use for food
and is it a better deal than the Costco two-gallon box of white vinegar?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-128-oz-30-Vinegar-All-Purpose-Cleaner-Concentrate-VINE30-128/309463051
https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/four-monks-distilled-white-vinegar%2C-1-gallon%2C-2-ct.product.11073510.html
The Home Depot vinegar says it's 30% but the Four Monks vinegar doesn't
say, nor does the Costco advertisement supply a price w/o an account.
Anyone know?
If you scroll through the "Questions and Answers" section on the Home
Depot web page for this product you'll see that the manufacturer
explicitly says that this product is NOT food grade. Food grade acetic
acid is only produced by fermentation. This product is produced by
methanol carbonylation. Methanol is wood alcohol and is highly toxic
causing blindness and severe liver failure. I suspect that there may be
traces of residual methanol in this product which are entirely absent
from the fermentation-produced, food grade acetic acid. In short -
don't even think about consuming this product in any dilution.
Max Demian
2024-09-23 10:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Retirednoguilt
Post by Harry S Robins
Is Home Depot 30% acetic acid at $20 a gallon safe & ok to use for food
and is it a better deal than the Costco two-gallon box of white vinegar?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-128-oz-30-Vinegar-All-Purpose-Cleaner-Concentrate-VINE30-128/309463051
https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/four-monks-distilled-white-vinegar%2C-1-gallon%2C-2-ct.product.11073510.html
The Home Depot vinegar says it's 30% but the Four Monks vinegar doesn't
say, nor does the Costco advertisement supply a price w/o an account.
Anyone know?
I only use white (i.e. distilled malt) vinegar to descale my electric
steamer. I suppose there must be culinary uses as well, as it's shelved
with the malt vinegar.
Post by Retirednoguilt
If you scroll through the "Questions and Answers" section on the Home
Depot web page for this product you'll see that the manufacturer
explicitly says that this product is NOT food grade. Food grade acetic
acid is only produced by fermentation.
In the UK there is (or was) a thing called "non brewed condiment" which
is acetic acid flavoured and coloured with caramel.
--
Max Demian
rbowman
2024-09-23 18:13:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
In the UK there is (or was) a thing called "non brewed condiment" which
is acetic acid flavoured and coloured with caramel.
Brilliant. Chips and ersatz vinegar.
rbowman
2024-09-22 18:22:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
Is Home Depot 30% acetic acid at $20 a gallon safe & ok to use for food
and is it a better deal than the Costco two-gallon box of white vinegar?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-128-oz-30-Vinegar-All-Purpose-
Cleaner-Concentrate-VINE30-128/309463051
Post by Harry S Robins
https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/four-monks-distilled-white-
vinegar%2C-1-gallon%2C-2-ct.product.11073510.html
Post by Harry S Robins
The Home Depot vinegar says it's 30% but the Four Monks vinegar doesn't
say, nor does the Costco advertisement supply a price w/o an account.
Anyone know?
The local CostCo warehouse lists the Four Monks at $6.69 / 2 gallons

https://agardenerstable.com/tag/four-monks/

claims Four Monks is 4%, although they do make a 6% 'cleaning version. Are
you cleaning or cooking? If you do the math there is not much difference.
However the Harris acetic acid is not food grade and is made using an
industrial process.

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms11481
Harry S Robins
2024-09-23 03:40:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Harry S Robins
The Home Depot vinegar says it's 30% but the Four Monks vinegar doesn't
say, nor does the Costco advertisement supply a price w/o an account.
Anyone know?
The local CostCo warehouse lists the Four Monks at $6.69 / 2 gallons
https://agardenerstable.com/tag/four-monks/
claims Four Monks is 4%, although they do make a 6% 'cleaning version. Are
you cleaning or cooking? If you do the math there is not much difference.
However the Harris acetic acid is not food grade and is made using an
industrial process.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms11481
I'm going to return the bottle I bought today back to Home Depot because of
things I didn't know until people like Retirednoguilt explained the 30% is
made by 'methanol carbonylation' (which doesn't sound good) and not by
fermentation, and Mighty Wannabe explained food grade acetic acid 4% is
normal kitchen vinegar while 7% is pickling vinegar.

Using the numbers provided by rbowman of 4% for the Costco food-grade
vinegar at $6.69 / 2 gallons the Harris $20 acetic acid concentrate ends up
being $2.67/gallon when diluted to 7/5 gallons making it the level of the
Costco Two Monks 4% vinegar concentration, which itself is $3.35/gallon.

I scrolled through all the questions, and almost every answer was that it's
no good for food but also, surprisingly, it's no good for cleaning either.

It's not even good for pools (to lower the pH, for example) so I wonder
now, with a new question, of what good it is as it's sold as a cleaner?

Most of the hundreds of answers to queries were that it's no good for
cleaning what people want to clean (floors, windows, tile, etc.) but even
for the things it's good for cleaning (like coffee pots) it has to be
diluted, so you're back to the lower percentages anyway.

So what good is 30% industrial acetic acid sold at Home Depot for $20/gal?
Or should I return it and give up?
rbowman
2024-09-23 06:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
So what good is 30% industrial acetic acid sold at Home Depot for $20/gal?
Or should I return it and give up?
Killing weeds. Some people will use it rather than RoundUp or other
chemicals that are potentially harmful. Raccoons don't like the smell so
it may help to deter the,

I use vinegar on the windshield in the summer. The water here is very hard
and the spray from the lawn sprinkler dries to water spots that regular
washer fluid or Windex won't touch. Regular 5% or 7% is fine for that. I
also run it through the coffee maker.

I forget what I paid for the last gallon at the grocery store but it
wasn't much considering how long it lasts. Like a lot of CostCo things 2
gallons would last for a couple of years. For cooking I use Bragg.
Harry S Robins
2024-09-23 17:21:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Killing weeds. Some people will use it rather than RoundUp or other
chemicals that are potentially harmful. Raccoons don't like the smell so
it may help to deter the,
I've used the Costco 4% vinegar + a few drops of dish detergent + a spoon
of salt in a Home Depot spray bottle to brown weeds which it does in a day.

But it doesn't kill them (and the salt may or may not turn the soil into
that of Carthage - but it doesn't seem to be salting the land in my tests).
Post by rbowman
I use vinegar on the windshield in the summer. The water here is very hard
and the spray from the lawn sprinkler dries to water spots that regular
washer fluid or Windex won't touch. Regular 5% or 7% is fine for that. I
also run it through the coffee maker.
I noticed that some said in the Home Depot questions and answer section
that the 'acid' destroyed the rubber gaskets in typical spray bottles.

I do run the 4% Costco through the coffee maker, which I reuse as I keep a
well-labeled jug of previously-used 4% vinegar for descaling pots & pans.

But, after reading a few hundred questions on the Home Depot site for the
30% vinegar, I can't for the life of me figure out what it's good for.
Post by rbowman
I forget what I paid for the last gallon at the grocery store but it
wasn't much considering how long it lasts. Like a lot of CostCo things 2
gallons would last for a couple of years. For cooking I use Bragg.
When you use an ingredient straight up, then it matters a LOT the "taste"
of that ingredient but when you mix it with a hundreds things, maybe not.

There is the classic example of real vanilla versus the fake stuff, where
if you use a drop in a bowl containing many other ingredients, it doesn't
matter nearly as much (according to Consumer Reports anyway) than if you
are using it with extremely few other ingredients.

In the case of salad oil, the vinegar is a small portion of the taste,
which is why the $3.35/gallon Costco Two Monks 4% vinegar fits in.

It's hard to justify the cost of the $10/gallon 30% Harris vinegar, simply
because it is used only for cleaning - but I can't find what it cleans.

What do most people us the undiluted 30% concentration to clean anyway?
Scott Lurndal
2024-09-23 17:57:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
It's hard to justify the cost of the $10/gallon 30% Harris vinegar, simply
because it is used only for cleaning - but I can't find what it cleans.
Any strong acid is useful for removing calcium deposits from hard water.
Isaac Montara
2024-09-23 19:29:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Harry S Robins
It's hard to justify the cost of the $10/gallon 30% Harris vinegar, simply
because it is used only for cleaning - but I can't find what it cleans.
Any strong acid is useful for removing calcium deposits from hard water.
Acetic acid is a weak acid.
Muriatic acid costs less per gallon at Home Depot and is much stronger.
micky
2024-09-24 20:28:52 UTC
Permalink
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 23 Sep 2024 15:29:32 -0400, Isaac Montara
Post by Isaac Montara
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Harry S Robins
It's hard to justify the cost of the $10/gallon 30% Harris vinegar, simply
because it is used only for cleaning - but I can't find what it cleans.
Any strong acid is useful for removing calcium deposits from hard water.
Acetic acid is a weak acid.
Muriatic acid costs less per gallon at Home Depot and is much stronger.
I bought some of that to clean the mineral deposits off my toilet bowl.
Thought it would be cheaper than "toilet bowl clean with muriatic acid",
HCl. Strangely, it didn't work any better and I'm pretty sure it didn't
work as well. Plus of course the small chance of splattering it in
one's eyes, which I don't remember if that is warned against for the
toilet bowl cleaner or not. Anyhow, it took a while but the toilets
are sparkling clean now.
<Joe>
2024-09-23 20:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Harry S Robins
It's hard to justify the cost of the $10/gallon 30% Harris vinegar, simply
because it is used only for cleaning - but I can't find what it cleans.
Any strong acid is useful for removing calcium deposits from hard water.
I use food grade citric acid for it, works great and a small bag of it will
last a long time.
rbowman
2024-09-23 18:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
There is the classic example of real vanilla versus the fake stuff,
where if you use a drop in a bowl containing many other ingredients, it
doesn't matter nearly as much (according to Consumer Reports anyway)
than if you are using it with extremely few other ingredients.
I used to read Consumer Reports for items I knew nothing about like
digital cameras. In the process I noticed that their choices in areas that
I was familiar with were mediocre, safe choices, plain vanilla if you
will. In particular no matter what cars they were reviewing the Honda
Civic was the best choice. For less expensive models they would recommend
a used Civic. For an equivalent price range, the best buy was a Civic. For
high end cars you could buy two Civics for the money.

Historically, fake vanilla was favored in lumber camps since the workers
tended to drink the real stuff. I suppose it was easier to get down than
lemon extract.
Harry S Robins
2024-09-23 20:03:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Harry S Robins
There is the classic example of real vanilla versus the fake stuff,
where if you use a drop in a bowl containing many other ingredients, it
doesn't matter nearly as much (according to Consumer Reports anyway)
than if you are using it with extremely few other ingredients.
I used to read Consumer Reports for items I knew nothing about like
digital cameras. In the process I noticed that their choices in areas that
I was familiar with were mediocre, safe choices, plain vanilla if you
will. In particular no matter what cars they were reviewing the Honda
Civic was the best choice. For less expensive models they would recommend
a used Civic. For an equivalent price range, the best buy was a Civic. For
high end cars you could buy two Civics for the money.
Historically, fake vanilla was favored in lumber camps since the workers
tended to drink the real stuff. I suppose it was easier to get down than
lemon extract.
I agree with you on Consumer's Union reports where for stuff I didn't know
at all when I was a kid, like motor oil, they covered it well (where, in
those days, API B still existed, although they might have been up to around
D or so by the time I read that canonical article on motor oil selection).

But for stuff I knew well, even as a kid, such as Japanese rice burners,
the fact that they rated a rice rocket on "noise level" was kind of
ridiculous, given that they person who buys that Consumer Reports
recommended Honda Civic isn't the same person who buys a Gold Wing.

There still was some use to their reviews though as the Hagen Daz ice cream
review of the 80's showed me the power of perverse marketing, and the
reliability records of the American vehicles was well below that of Japan.

Consumer Reports is still good for simpler things, like space heaters,
since they test the real output versus the claimed output, for example
(where they all have essentially the same output no matter the claims).

But for things like washing machines or lawn mowers, it's hard to find the
exact model that they tested, where you might be able to extrapolate one
Samsung TV review to another but you'd be guessing which is the whole point
that you're trying not to do by reading Consumers Reports in the first
place.

I do like the Consumer Reports articles on commonly purchased commodities
like car batteries, where they tell you there are only so many companies
and they let you know not only which brands are from the few companies but
also how to read the secret codes that are stamped on the outside of these
commodities (like tires).

One thing I miss though with Consumer Reports is they don't test a lot of
the stuff I need to buy, such as brake pads or coffee beans, or... vinegar.
rbowman
2024-09-23 23:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
I agree with you on Consumer's Union reports where for stuff I didn't
know at all when I was a kid, like motor oil, they covered it well
(where, in those days, API B still existed, although they might have
been up to around D or so by the time I read that canonical article on
motor oil selection).
I remember seeing Fox Head motor oil. Wolf's Head was a respected brand
but I think Fox Head was reprocessed bacon drippings. Even with a 1000
mile / quart beater I stuck to Quaker State. I don't know if stuff like
that even exists anymore with the rating system.
Quincy the fifth
2024-09-23 20:08:39 UTC
Permalink
As with any of these "expert reviews" or worse-yet
- online customer reviews - huge grain of salt !
I like to remind folks that the MotorTrend Car-of-the-Year
includes the 1971 Vega - possibly the worst car ever made.
John T.
I wonder what the "expert reviews" thought of the Mazda RX3?
Jim Joyce
2024-09-23 20:29:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
There is the classic example of real vanilla versus the fake stuff, where
if you use a drop in a bowl containing many other ingredients, it doesn't
matter nearly as much (according to Consumer Reports anyway) than if you
are using it with extremely few other ingredients.
Any discussion of vanilla takes me back to the day when I learned that someone
had expressed (squeezed) a beaver's anal gland, releasing a sweet sticky
substance that would later be named castoreum and would be used to provide a
vanilla-like flavor to multiple food products.

"You gonna eat that?"
"Yep! Watch me!"
"Hmm, tastes like vanilla!"
Delbert McLintock
2024-09-23 21:17:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Joyce
Post by Harry S Robins
There is the classic example of real vanilla versus the fake stuff, where
if you use a drop in a bowl containing many other ingredients, it doesn't
matter nearly as much (according to Consumer Reports anyway) than if you
are using it with extremely few other ingredients.
Any discussion of vanilla takes me back to the day when I learned that someone
had expressed (squeezed) a beaver's anal gland, releasing a sweet sticky
substance that would later be named castoreum and would be used to provide a
vanilla-like flavor to multiple food products.
"You gonna eat that?"
"Yep! Watch me!"
"Hmm, tastes like vanilla!"
I was ready to call BS on that one.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/bittersweet-story-vanilla-180962757/

Long before Europeans took to vanilla's taste, the creeping vine grew
wild in tropical forests throughout Mesoamerica. While the Totonac
people of modern-day Veracruz, Mexico, are credited as the earliest
growers of vanilla, the oldest reports of vanilla usage come from the
pre-Columbian Maya. The Maya used vanilla in a beverage made with cacao
and other spices. After conquering the Totonacan empire, the Aztecs
followed suit, adding vanilla to a beverage consumed by nobility and
known as chocolatl.

The Spanish conquest of the Aztecs in 1519 brought the fragrant
flower—and its companion, cacao—to Europe. Vanilla was cultivated in
botanical gardens in France and England, but never offered up its
glorious seeds. Growers couldn’t understand why until centuries later
when, in 1836, Belgian horticulturist Charles Morren reported that
vanilla’s natural pollinator was the Melipona bee, an insect that didn’t
live in Europe. (A recent study, however, suggests that Euglossine bees
may actually be the orchid’s primary pollinator.)

Five years later, on the island of Réunion, a 39-mile long volcanic
hotspot in the Indian Ocean, everything changed. In 1841, an enslaved
boy on the island named Edmond Albius developed the painstaking yet
effective hand-pollination method for vanilla that is still in use
today, which involves exposing and mating the flower’s male and female
parts. His technique spread from Réunion to Madagascar and other
neighboring islands, and eventually worked its way back to Mexico as a
way to augment the vanilla harvest pollinated by bees.

This proliferation helped whet the world’s appetite for vanilla. The
spice quickly found its way into cakes and ice cream, perfumes and
medicines, and was valued for its intoxicating flavor and aroma. But
despite growing demand and a robust crop, the tremendous amount of time
and energy that went into cultivation and processing affected farmers’
ability to supply the market—and continues to do so today. Nearly all of
the vanilla produced commercially today is hand-pollinated.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/does-vanilla-flavoring-actually-come-from-beaver-butts-180983288/

If you’ve been on the internet in recent years, you might have seen the
claim that artificial vanilla flavoring found in cookies or ice cream
comes from goo secreted out of beaver behinds. Every few years, posts go
viral on social media warning consumers that this substance—called
castoreum—may be disguised as “natural flavoring” on the ingredient list
of your favorite sweet treats.

While this statement is not entirely false—beavers do excrete
sweet-smelling (and edible) castoreum from sacs near their
anuses—experts say you probably can’t find this goo on the shelves of
your nearest grocery store.

“It turns out that the stuff is incredibly expensive, because it’s
rare,” Michelle Francl, a chemist at Bryn Mawr College who studies the
science of food, tells National Geographic’s Jessica Taylor Price.
“There’s no way it’s in your ice cream.”

In the early 20th century, castoreum began appearing in some foods to
add a vanilla-raspberry flavor. But its use had fallen by 1987, when the
U.S. consumed about 250 pounds of castoreum per year, according to Vice.
Since then, its use has “decreased significantly,” as the Flavor Extract
Manufacturers’ Association told the publication. Perhaps the final
strike against popular use of castoreum was that products using it as
flavoring could not be certified as kosher.

Now, the substance is mostly found in niche foods such as a Swedish
liquor. Instead, about 99 percent of the world’s vanilla comes from
synthetic sources such as vanillin, a cheaper and less labor-intensive
alternative to harvesting vanilla beans or castoreum.

So, while the Food and Drug Administration does list castoreum as safe
to eat, it’s unlikely you’ll ever have to worry about ingesting beaver
butt goo by accident.


And then...
micky
2024-09-24 21:45:03 UTC
Permalink
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 23 Sep 2024 15:17:14 -0600, Delbert
Post by Delbert McLintock
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/does-vanilla-flavoring-actually-come-from-beaver-butts-180983288/
If you’ve been on the internet in recent years, you might have seen the
claim that artificial vanilla flavoring found in cookies or ice cream
comes from goo secreted out of beaver behinds. Every few years, posts go
viral on social media warning consumers that this substance—called
castoreum—may be disguised as “natural flavoring” on the ingredient list
of your favorite sweet treats.
While this statement is not entirely false—beavers do excrete
sweet-smelling (and edible) castoreum from sacs near their
anuses—experts say you probably can’t find this goo on the shelves of
your nearest grocery store.
“It turns out that the stuff is incredibly expensive, because it’s
rare,” Michelle Francl, a chemist at Bryn Mawr College who studies the
science of food, tells National Geographic’s Jessica Taylor Price.
“There’s no way it’s in your ice cream.”
In the early 20th century, castoreum began appearing in some foods to
add a vanilla-raspberry flavor. But its use had fallen by 1987, when the
U.S. consumed about 250 pounds of castoreum per year, according to Vice.
Since then, its use has “decreased significantly,” as the Flavor Extract
Manufacturers’ Association told the publication. Perhaps the final
strike against popular use of castoreum was that products using it as
flavoring could not be certified as kosher.
Very interesting. Thank you. I had heard the word castoreum but didn't
remember what it was. It's also interesting that it's not kosher,
although that's not surprising since kosher food from animals has to
come from a kosher animal, a fish with fins and scales or specified
birds or a land animal with cloven hooves that chews its cud, which are
cows, sheep, goat, and giraffes, though no one eats giraffes.

OTOH, honey is kosher because it's not actually secreted by the bees as
it might seem. It's made by them from flower nectar.
https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/624/do-bee-dont-bee/

"Furthermore, if honey is kosher, are all products manufactured by the
bee, e.g. royal jelly, beeswax, bee venom, and propolis (described
below) also kosher?...." plus bee pollen, bee bread, bee parts, and Apis
Mellifica. Didn't know there were so many! The article goes over each
one.

Hechsher refers to inspection to see if something is kosher or not.
Post by Delbert McLintock
Now, the substance is mostly found in niche foods such as a Swedish
liquor. Instead, about 99 percent of the world’s vanilla comes from
synthetic sources such as vanillin, a cheaper and less labor-intensive
alternative to harvesting vanilla beans or castoreum.
So, while the Food and Drug Administration does list castoreum as safe
to eat, it’s unlikely you’ll ever have to worry about ingesting beaver
butt goo by accident.
That's good for so many reasons.
Post by Delbert McLintock
And then...
Max Demian
2024-09-25 11:05:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by micky
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 23 Sep 2024 15:17:14 -0600, Delbert
Post by Delbert McLintock
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/does-vanilla-flavoring-actually-come-from-beaver-butts-180983288/
If you’ve been on the internet in recent years, you might have seen the
claim that artificial vanilla flavoring found in cookies or ice cream
comes from goo secreted out of beaver behinds. Every few years, posts go
viral on social media warning consumers that this substance—called
castoreum—may be disguised as “natural flavoring” on the ingredient list
of your favorite sweet treats.
While this statement is not entirely false—beavers do excrete
sweet-smelling (and edible) castoreum from sacs near their
anuses—experts say you probably can’t find this goo on the shelves of
your nearest grocery store.
“It turns out that the stuff is incredibly expensive, because it’s
rare,” Michelle Francl, a chemist at Bryn Mawr College who studies the
science of food, tells National Geographic’s Jessica Taylor Price.
“There’s no way it’s in your ice cream.”
In the early 20th century, castoreum began appearing in some foods to
add a vanilla-raspberry flavor. But its use had fallen by 1987, when the
U.S. consumed about 250 pounds of castoreum per year, according to Vice.
Since then, its use has “decreased significantly,” as the Flavor Extract
Manufacturers’ Association told the publication. Perhaps the final
strike against popular use of castoreum was that products using it as
flavoring could not be certified as kosher.
Very interesting. Thank you. I had heard the word castoreum but didn't
remember what it was. It's also interesting that it's not kosher,
although that's not surprising since kosher food from animals has to
come from a kosher animal, a fish with fins and scales or specified
birds or a land animal with cloven hooves that chews its cud, which are
cows, sheep, goat, and giraffes, though no one eats giraffes.
Why not? And what about camels?
Post by micky
OTOH, honey is kosher because it's not actually secreted by the bees as
it might seem. It's made by them from flower nectar.
https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/624/do-bee-dont-bee/
The bees have to ingest and process the nectar. In the same way that a
pig processes food to produce pig meat.
--
Max Demian
micky
2024-09-25 14:18:40 UTC
Permalink
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2024 12:05:04 +0100, Max Demian
Post by Max Demian
Post by micky
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 23 Sep 2024 15:17:14 -0600, Delbert
Post by Delbert McLintock
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/does-vanilla-flavoring-actually-come-from-beaver-butts-180983288/
If you’ve been on the internet in recent years, you might have seen the
claim that artificial vanilla flavoring found in cookies or ice cream
comes from goo secreted out of beaver behinds. Every few years, posts go
viral on social media warning consumers that this substance—called
castoreum—may be disguised as “natural flavoring” on the ingredient list
of your favorite sweet treats.
While this statement is not entirely false—beavers do excrete
sweet-smelling (and edible) castoreum from sacs near their
anuses—experts say you probably can’t find this goo on the shelves of
your nearest grocery store.
“It turns out that the stuff is incredibly expensive, because it’s
rare,” Michelle Francl, a chemist at Bryn Mawr College who studies the
science of food, tells National Geographic’s Jessica Taylor Price.
“There’s no way it’s in your ice cream.”
In the early 20th century, castoreum began appearing in some foods to
add a vanilla-raspberry flavor. But its use had fallen by 1987, when the
U.S. consumed about 250 pounds of castoreum per year, according to Vice.
Since then, its use has “decreased significantly,” as the Flavor Extract
Manufacturers’ Association told the publication. Perhaps the final
strike against popular use of castoreum was that products using it as
flavoring could not be certified as kosher.
Very interesting. Thank you. I had heard the word castoreum but didn't
remember what it was. It's also interesting that it's not kosher,
although that's not surprising since kosher food from animals has to
come from a kosher animal, a fish with fins and scales or specified
birds or a land animal with cloven hooves that chews its cud, which are
cows, sheep, goat, and giraffes, though no one eats giraffes.
I left out deer, gazelle, antelope, etc. but thsee are almost always
wild animals that are caught by shooting them and that makes them
unkosher. There are a few deer farms that sell mail-order, and I've
seen kosher bison meat right at the butcher shop.
Post by Max Demian
Why not?
Because in the Bible, God instructs Jews not to eat other animals.
Post by Max Demian
And what about camels?
Camels chew their cud but they don't have cloven hooves.
Post by Max Demian
Post by micky
OTOH, honey is kosher because it's not actually secreted by the bees as
it might seem. It's made by them from flower nectar.
https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/624/do-bee-dont-bee/
The bees have to ingest and process the nectar. In the same way that a
pig processes food to produce pig meat.
Some similarity but big differences.
unknown
2024-09-25 14:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by micky
Camels chew their cud but they don't have cloven hooves.
Are you saying camel toes are not kosher???  I'll be damned!!!
micky
2024-09-25 22:34:32 UTC
Permalink
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2024 10:40:35 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe
Post by unknown
Post by micky
Camels chew their cud but they don't have cloven hooves.
Are you saying camel toes are not kosher???  I'll be damned!!!
I've heard of people eating chicken wings, crabs legs, and pigs
knuckles, but never camel toes.
rbowman
2024-09-23 23:59:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Joyce
Any discussion of vanilla takes me back to the day when I learned that
someone had expressed (squeezed) a beaver's anal gland, releasing a
sweet sticky substance that would later be named castoreum and would be
used to provide a vanilla-like flavor to multiple food products.
https://dolly.jorgensenweb.net/nordicnature/?p=1015
kami
2024-09-22 19:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
Is Home Depot 30% acetic acid at $20 a gallon safe & ok to use for food
and is it a better deal than the Costco two-gallon box of white vinegar?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-128-oz-30-Vinegar-All-Purpose-Cleaner-Concentrate-VINE30-128/309463051
https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/four-monks-distilled-white-vinegar%2C-1-gallon%2C-2-ct.product.11073510.html
The Home Depot vinegar says it's 30% but the Four Monks vinegar doesn't
say, nor does the Costco advertisement supply a price w/o an account.
Anyone know?
why would you need so much vinegar?
Mickey D
2024-09-23 19:32:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by kami
why would you need so much vinegar?
Do you make your own salad dressing?

It's one third vinegar.
unknown
2024-09-22 23:53:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry S Robins
Is Home Depot 30% acetic acid at $20 a gallon safe & ok to use for food
and is it a better deal than the Costco two-gallon box of white vinegar?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-128-oz-30-Vinegar-All-Purpose-Cleaner-Concentrate-VINE30-128/309463051
https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/four-monks-distilled-white-vinegar%2C-1-gallon%2C-2-ct.product.11073510.html
The Home Depot vinegar says it's 30% but the Four Monks vinegar doesn't
say, nor does the Costco advertisement supply a price w/o an account.
Anyone know?
Apparently chemicals sold in Home Depot are not meant for food. It is
industrial grade acetic acid meant to kill weed when sprayed directly to
the leaf and root area.

By the way, food grade acetic acid 4% is normal kitchen vinegar, and 7%
is pickling vinegar.
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