Discussion:
Italian Sausage Borsellini
(too old to reply)
z z
2012-04-29 15:52:29 UTC
Permalink
$2.98 9oz package Walmart. I have not had good luck boiling stuffed
pastas (another reason I liked Pandora's pasta--stuffed AFTER boiling.)

This package captured my attention because the borsellini "little
purses" are tiny (and cute) so hopefully they wont fall apart during
boiling.

The name little purses would make this a cute entree for a ladies
luncheon.

Ingredients sound great-red pepper pasta, sausage, mozzarella, and
ricotta.

What sauce would you use? Do italians always top pasta with sauce, or
would just a simple shake of the parmesan can suffice?

This is a Walmart product www.marketside.com and the only address is
Bentonville, Arkansas-does that mean the food factory is there also?
George M. Middius
2012-04-29 16:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by z z
Do italians always top pasta with sauce, or
would just a simple shake of the parmesan can suffice?
Canned "parmesan" is unknown in Italy. If you want to sell parmesan
cheese in Italy, it has to be real parmesan (Parmigiano). The
dried-out, powdered imitation version in cans is an imitation of the
real thing.
z z
2012-04-29 16:58:58 UTC
Permalink
When in Rome.. :-)

I'm in Walmart lol
Brooklyn1
2012-04-29 17:51:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by George M. Middius
Post by z z
Do italians always top pasta with sauce, or
would just a simple shake of the parmesan can suffice?
Canned "parmesan" is unknown in Italy. If you want to sell parmesan
cheese in Italy, it has to be real parmesan (Parmigiano). The
dried-out, powdered imitation version in cans is an imitation of the
real thing.
You've obviously never been to Italy... they use pre-grated hard
cheeses of all kinds just as much as in the US if not more... so stop
making stuff up, if you don't know STFU.
i***@webtv.net
2012-04-29 22:48:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
Post by George M. Middius
Post by z z
Do italians always top pasta with sauce, or
would just a simple shake of the parmesan can suffice?
Canned "parmesan" is unknown in Italy. If you want to sell parmesan
cheese in Italy, it has to be real parmesan (Parmigiano). The
dried-out, powdered imitation version in cans is an imitation of the
real thing.
You've obviously never been to Italy... they use pre-grated hard
cheeses of all kinds just as much as in the US if not more... so stop
making stuff up, if you don't know STFU.
I've not been to Italy but I don't use that crap in the green can or
any can. Most any store that has a deli of some sort stocks wedges of
wrapped cheeses. Some are better than others but that's what _I_
buy and grate it as I need it. LOTS more flavor than the Kraft Krap.
Brooklyn1
2012-04-29 23:50:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@webtv.net
Post by Brooklyn1
Post by George M. Middius
Post by z z
Do italians always top pasta with sauce, or
would just a simple shake of the parmesan can suffice?
Canned "parmesan" is unknown in Italy. If you want to sell parmesan
cheese in Italy, it has to be real parmesan (Parmigiano). The
dried-out, powdered imitation version in cans is an imitation of the
real thing.
You've obviously never been to Italy... they use pre-grated hard
cheeses of all kinds just as much as in the US if not more... so stop
making stuff up, if you don't know STFU.
I've not been to Italy but I don't use that crap in the green can or
any can. Most any store that has a deli of some sort stocks wedges of
wrapped cheeses. Some are better than others but that's what _I_
buy and grate it as I need it. LOTS more flavor than the Kraft Krap.
Of course fresh grated is best, but still tons of pre-grated is sold,
it's what most people eat, and not necessarilly from those little
green cans but most every store sells recently grated or grated to
order in tubs that folks keep in their fridge for weeks adn months,
and that is what most folks use and most restos use that sort of
pre-grated too, every pizzaria and every Italian chain resto serves
pre-grated to the table, but even the posh joints that grate at table
still use pre-grated in their kitchen for cooking. And it's no
different in Italy. I don't buy pre-grated, I grate my own from a
chunk and if I run out, as I have now, I do without, it's on my list
for my next shopping trip. Btw, Parmagiano Regiano is a table cheese,
not a grating cheese... what folks grate are the cheeses that weren't
properly stored rather than toss it in the trash, or it's used for
cooking along with the hard rinds... the hard dry chunks are tossed in
sauces and stews where it slowly melts.
ViLco
2012-05-02 11:02:48 UTC
Permalink
Btw, Parmagiano Regiano is a table cheese, not a grating cheese...
ROTFL!
Usually I don't answer to so much BS, but that one is your best one ever.
Signature line material, I'd say
Nunya Bidnits
2012-05-02 15:48:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by ViLco
Btw, Parmagiano Regiano is a table cheese, not a grating cheese...
ROTFL!
Usually I don't answer to so much BS, but that one is your best one
ever. Signature line material, I'd say
I'm sure he meant that he puts the shaker of grated cheese on the table.

;-)
Brooklyn1
2012-05-02 16:00:52 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 2 May 2012 10:48:00 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
Post by Nunya Bidnits
Post by ViLco
Btw, Parmagiano Regiano is a table cheese, not a grating cheese...
ROTFL!
Usually I don't answer to so much BS, but that one is your best one
ever. Signature line material, I'd say
I'm sure he meant that he puts the shaker of grated cheese on the table.
Parmigiano reggiano should never be grated, would be an insult to the
cheesemaker and to the cheese:
http://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/default.aspx
Cooking with expensive table wine also insults the vintner and the
wine. Do you know what yoose two fools know about food and cooking,
see the following
Janet
2012-05-02 16:28:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
On Wed, 2 May 2012 10:48:00 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
Post by Nunya Bidnits
Post by ViLco
Btw, Parmagiano Regiano is a table cheese, not a grating cheese...
ROTFL!
Usually I don't answer to so much BS, but that one is your best one
ever. Signature line material, I'd say
I'm sure he meant that he puts the shaker of grated cheese on the table.
Parmigiano reggiano should never be grated, would be an insult to the
http://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/default.aspx
Too bad you haven't noticed that your cited website says exactly the
opposite, it has many pages of recipes and chefs suggestions for cooked
and grated Parmigiano reggiano.

http://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/taste/recipes/default.aspx

Janet.
Brooklyn1
2012-05-02 18:03:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Brooklyn1
On Wed, 2 May 2012 10:48:00 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
Post by Nunya Bidnits
Post by ViLco
Btw, Parmagiano Regiano is a table cheese, not a grating cheese...
ROTFL!
Usually I don't answer to so much BS, but that one is your best one
ever. Signature line material, I'd say
I'm sure he meant that he puts the shaker of grated cheese on the table.
Parmigiano reggiano should never be grated, would be an insult to the
http://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/default.aspx
Too bad you haven't noticed that your cited website says exactly the
opposite, it has many pages of recipes and chefs suggestions for cooked
and grated Parmigiano reggiano.
http://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/taste/recipes/default.aspx
The website clearly explains what I already said, that grating is
reserved for improperly stored/dried cheese rather than wasting it.
Parmigiano-Reggiano is intended to be chipped/shaved, not grated. If
your cheese is hard/dry enough to grate it's already spoiled, then you
may as well use the cheese in those green cans. The folks who produce
Parmigiano-Reggiano hate to hear that the cheese they took such pains
to make and that took 2-3-4 years to carefully age was grated.
ViLco
2012-05-03 10:03:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
The website clearly explains what I already said, that grating is
reserved for improperly stored/dried cheese rather than wasting it.
You're a really sad man, not only you lie but you pretend to be right even
when reality smacks you up in the face. No surprise you din't post a link
back up the BS you're writing.
Here is your same website (ROTFL) perfectly debunking all the crap you
Post by Brooklyn1
Eat this "as a condiment, added especially *grated* or in slivers
to dishes that are enriched by Parmigiano-Reggiano in flavour
and aroma (some of the better known examples are Italian pasta,
as well as vegetable or fruit salads)"
http://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/taste/combinations/default.aspx

Now GFY, ignorant prick
ViLco
2012-05-03 09:57:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Brooklyn1
Parmigiano reggiano should never be grated, would be an insult to the
http://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/default.aspx
Too bad you haven't noticed that your cited website says exactly the
opposite, it has many pages of recipes and chefs suggestions for
cooked and grated Parmigiano reggiano.
http://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/taste/recipes/default.aspx
An ignorant dick will always be an ignorant dick.
George M. Middius
2012-05-03 13:47:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by ViLco
An ignorant dick will always be an ignorant dick.
Shelley doesn't care that he's ignorant. I think that's because he
doesn't actually know what knowledge is.
Nunya Bidnits
2012-05-02 18:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
Do you know what yoose two fools know about food and cooking,
see the following
And of course, nothing followed.

Empty post, empty head. ;-)
Tommy Joe
2012-04-30 02:56:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
You've obviously never been to Italy... they use pre-grated hard
cheeses of all kinds just as much as in the US if not more... so stop
making stuff up, if you don't know STFU.
You know what Brooklyn, I hopped into this thread hoping to see
an Italian sausage recipe, but read on anyway as I found it
interesting to some degree. I saw the person's response about
Italians not using "only" prepared parmesan cheese and had trouble
believing it but decided to say nothing because it wasn't that
important and I've never been to Italy and am not an authority. But
it did dawn on me that Italy is a big country, and like most big
countries, there are probably people living there who don't do
everything exactly the same way. I thought surely there are people
living in Italy who use dried cheeses out of shakers rather than
shredding their own. Now I'm not saying your input clinches the
argument, but I do have to say I agree with you on this one even
though I've never been to Italy. Everyone everywhere eventually gives
in to easy packaging and processed foods - to some degree - I doubt
it's just a USA thing.

TJ
Brooklyn1
2012-04-30 13:02:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
Post by Brooklyn1
You've obviously never been to Italy... they use pre-grated hard
cheeses of all kinds just as much as in the US if not more... so stop
making stuff up, if you don't know STFU.
You know what Brooklyn, I hopped into this thread hoping to see
an Italian sausage recipe, but read on anyway as I found it
interesting to some degree. I saw the person's response about
Italians not using "only" prepared parmesan cheese and had trouble
believing it but decided to say nothing because it wasn't that
important and I've never been to Italy and am not an authority. But
it did dawn on me that Italy is a big country, and like most big
countries, there are probably people living there who don't do
everything exactly the same way. I thought surely there are people
living in Italy who use dried cheeses out of shakers rather than
shredding their own. Now I'm not saying your input clinches the
argument, but I do have to say I agree with you on this one even
though I've never been to Italy. Everyone everywhere eventually gives
in to easy packaging and processed foods - to some degree - I doubt
it's just a USA thing.
TJ
I've been to Italy, several times... most everywhere serves
pre-grated... most folks buy several weeks worth and have their cheese
grated at the store, same as in the US and everywhere else. It sits
in their fridge until used up, it's not fresh grated at their table.
Even though it's nearly impossible to get folks here to admit it I'd
venture to say that very few actually grate their cheese from a wedge
at table. I'm one who does exclusively, probably because I use very
little grated cheese... a one pound wedge lasts in my fridge several
months. I can honestly say I have never bought pre-grated cheese and
I've never tasted cheese from the green can, maybe it's good but I
wouldn't know. Actually the reason I sometimes run out of grating
cheese is because occasionally I get the urge and I'll eat the entire
thing au jus by slicing off chunks... I always begin by thinking I'll
just nibble a little around the edges but before I know it there is
only a little nub left, so may as well finish her off.
Brooklyn1
2012-04-30 13:41:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
Post by Tommy Joe
Post by Brooklyn1
You've obviously never been to Italy... they use pre-grated hard
cheeses of all kinds just as much as in the US if not more... so stop
making stuff up, if you don't know STFU.
You know what Brooklyn, I hopped into this thread hoping to see
an Italian sausage recipe, but read on anyway as I found it
interesting to some degree. I saw the person's response about
Italians not using "only" prepared parmesan cheese and had trouble
believing it but decided to say nothing because it wasn't that
important and I've never been to Italy and am not an authority. But
it did dawn on me that Italy is a big country, and like most big
countries, there are probably people living there who don't do
everything exactly the same way. I thought surely there are people
living in Italy who use dried cheeses out of shakers rather than
shredding their own. Now I'm not saying your input clinches the
argument, but I do have to say I agree with you on this one even
though I've never been to Italy. Everyone everywhere eventually gives
in to easy packaging and processed foods - to some degree - I doubt
it's just a USA thing.
TJ
I've been to Italy, several times... most everywhere serves
pre-grated... most folks buy several weeks worth and have their cheese
grated at the store, same as in the US and everywhere else. It sits
in their fridge until used up, it's not fresh grated at their table.
Even though it's nearly impossible to get folks here to admit it I'd
venture to say that very few actually grate their cheese from a wedge
at table. I'm one who does exclusively, probably because I use very
little grated cheese... a one pound wedge lasts in my fridge several
months. I can honestly say I have never bought pre-grated cheese and
I've never tasted cheese from the green can, maybe it's good but I
wouldn't know. Actually the reason I sometimes run out of grating
cheese is because occasionally I get the urge and I'll eat the entire
thing au jus by slicing off chunks... I always begin by thinking I'll
just nibble a little around the edges but before I know it there is
only a little nub left, so may as well finish her off.
The best grating cheese is Jackie Gleason brand Fatchamatta Macaroni
Cheese
Gary
2012-04-30 21:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
Post by Tommy Joe
Post by Brooklyn1
You've obviously never been to Italy... they use pre-grated hard
cheeses of all kinds just as much as in the US if not more... so stop
making stuff up, if you don't know STFU.
You know what Brooklyn, I hopped into this thread hoping to see
an Italian sausage recipe, but read on anyway as I found it
interesting to some degree. I saw the person's response about
Italians not using "only" prepared parmesan cheese and had trouble
believing it but decided to say nothing because it wasn't that
important and I've never been to Italy and am not an authority. But
it did dawn on me that Italy is a big country, and like most big
countries, there are probably people living there who don't do
everything exactly the same way. I thought surely there are people
living in Italy who use dried cheeses out of shakers rather than
shredding their own. Now I'm not saying your input clinches the
argument, but I do have to say I agree with you on this one even
though I've never been to Italy. Everyone everywhere eventually gives
in to easy packaging and processed foods - to some degree - I doubt
it's just a USA thing.
TJ
I've been to Italy, several times... most everywhere serves
pre-grated... most folks buy several weeks worth and have their cheese
grated at the store, same as in the US and everywhere else. It sits
in their fridge until used up, it's not fresh grated at their table.
Even though it's nearly impossible to get folks here to admit it I'd
venture to say that very few actually grate their cheese from a wedge
at table. I'm one who does exclusively, probably because I use very
little grated cheese... a one pound wedge lasts in my fridge several
months. I can honestly say I have never bought pre-grated cheese and
I've never tasted cheese from the green can, maybe it's good but I
wouldn't know. Actually the reason I sometimes run out of grating
cheese is because occasionally I get the urge and I'll eat the entire
thing au jus by slicing off chunks... I always begin by thinking I'll
just nibble a little around the edges but before I know it there is
only a little nub left, so may as well finish her off.
I actually prefer the green can parmesan cheese. The flavor is more
concentrated and intense. I've used both but I do prefer the canned
version. Perhaps it's because that's what I grew up eating or maybe I buy
cheap fresh cheese.

Gary
Tommy Joe
2012-05-01 02:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
I actually prefer the green can parmesan cheese. The flavor is more
concentrated and intense.  I've used both but I do prefer the canned
version.  Perhaps it's because that's what I grew up eating or maybe I buy
cheap fresh cheese.
I like your honesty on this. That's the spirit, admit up front
that you're no expert, in the hopes of keeping some snobbish
instigator from saying something negative about your comments. It is
very possible that a lot of what we like we like because of habit.
But the idea of eating is not to impress other people, it's for you
and it's your choice. You know, they say you get what you pay for.
That is true a good deal of the time, but not always. I think there's
some expensive stuff out there that if you were to try it you might
not think it's so great. I'm a cheapo too when it comes to cheeses
and other deli type items. I'd love to stick a blindfold on the so-
called experts so they can sip or devour a variety of foods ranked
from 1 to 20 and see how they do. I also wonder how many people would
recognize it if a chef in a mid-priced restaurant took a container of
Wendy's salad and put it in a nice looking bowl and served it along
with an mid to expensive priced entree. (that may be the first time
I've ever used that word, entree, in my life, in print).

I used to wander as I wondered, now I just lie in one place and wonder
all day long,
TJ
Brooklyn1
2012-05-01 12:06:08 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:54:10 -0700 (PDT), Tommy Joe
Post by Tommy Joe
Post by Gary
I actually prefer the green can parmesan cheese. The flavor is more
concentrated and intense.  I've used both but I do prefer the canned
version.  Perhaps it's because that's what I grew up eating or maybe I buy
cheap fresh cheese.
I like your honesty on this. That's the spirit, admit up front
that you're no expert, in the hopes of keeping some snobbish
instigator from saying something negative about your comments. It is
very possible that a lot of what we like we like because of habit.
But the idea of eating is not to impress other people, it's for you
and it's your choice.
People prefer the foods they were fed growing up and their taste
preferences don't change much throughout their lives... if as a child
your parents fed you canned ravioli as a special treat that is what
you will consider gourmet dining your entire life.
Gary
2012-05-01 13:54:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:54:10 -0700 (PDT), Tommy Joe
Post by Tommy Joe
Post by Gary
I actually prefer the green can parmesan cheese. The flavor is more
concentrated and intense. I've used both but I do prefer the canned
version. Perhaps it's because that's what I grew up eating or maybe I buy
cheap fresh cheese.
I like your honesty on this. That's the spirit, admit up front
that you're no expert, in the hopes of keeping some snobbish
instigator from saying something negative about your comments. It is
very possible that a lot of what we like we like because of habit.
But the idea of eating is not to impress other people, it's for you
and it's your choice.
People prefer the foods they were fed growing up and their taste
preferences don't change much throughout their lives... if as a child
your parents fed you canned ravioli as a special treat that is what
you will consider gourmet dining your entire life.
That's very true although I have broken away seriously from most of the food
I grew up with. My mom's recipes still include canned things that I avoid
most of the time. Back then our steak was cooked well done like a piece of
leather because that's the way Dad liked it. I used lots of A-1 back in
those days. heheh

I do like the green can dried parmesan but I *have* been opting for the
cheap dairy version when I use fresh. It's weak tasting and not all that.
I stopped by the grocery store this morning and was looking at the hard
wedges in the gourmet section. I plan to buy one next time. I suspect I
might like fresh better if it's a good bramd of cheese.

Gary

Gary
Tommy Joe
2012-05-02 07:07:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
I do like the green can dried parmesan but I *have* been opting for the
cheap dairy version when I use fresh.  It's weak tasting and not all that.
I stopped by the grocery store this morning and was looking at the hard
wedges in the gourmet section.  I plan to buy one next time. I suspect I
might like fresh better if it's a good bramd of cheese.
Absolutely, experimenting is great, when one can afford it. A deli
where one could buy very small pieces of cheese at a higher price
would be worth it to learn what your tastes are. But I suppose such
things already exist. I know they have wine tasting and cheese
tasting and all that - but I'm talking about actually going in and
buying a very small piece from a wedge - the way some people pay more
to buy just one cigaret instead of a whole pack.

ala carte baby,
TJ
George M. Middius
2012-05-01 14:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Another crock o' crap from RFC's resident Liar-In-Chief.
Post by Brooklyn1
People prefer the foods they were fed growing up and their taste
preferences don't change much throughout their lives... if as a child
your parents fed you canned ravioli as a special treat that is what
you will consider gourmet dining your entire life.
Still another gem from Shelley. Maybe you're stuck at your preferences
from childhood, but that hardly means normal people are stuck there.
Tommy Joe
2012-05-02 07:03:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
People prefer the foods they were fed growing up and their taste
preferences don't change much throughout their lives... if as a child
your parents fed you canned ravioli as a special treat that is what
you will consider gourmet dining your entire life.
I will not argue as I do not totally disagree. There are those
rare times though - and they are pleasant - when you are able to talk
someone into trying a food they profess to have hated since
childhood. There are those rare moments. For myself I know I like
certain foods I did not like as a kid. However, the one food I hated,
maybe the only one that actually made me feel like puking - lima beans
- it would be hard to get me to try them today - especially if they're
the big white dry ones. I know they were made poorly. They were
forced on me in an orphanage, and in that place there was no "I don't
want this, Mommy", because you ate what they gave you and if you
didn't you'd get whipped for it - and they'd even check your pockets
to see.

Anyway, I know it was because they were not made well. They were
very dry and tasteless. There was no broth. It was disgusting. I
had to put them in my mouth first thing - the only way I could get
them down - and chew them rapidly while making a sound to block out
the reality of it all - then swallow the mix with a half glass of
water. Only then could I eat the rest of the meal.

Anyway, even today, swear to God, I have seen lima beans in
thick broth - the small green limas - and thought they looked pretty
good - and if someone had them and asked me to try them, I would.
It's not like I'm going to shake my head no at every food I did not
like in the past. I am open that way. But yes I agree that most
tastes in foods are developed young.

TJ
i***@webtv.net
2012-05-03 02:39:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:54:10 -0700 (PDT), Tommy Joe
Post by Gary
I actually prefer the green can parmesan cheese. The flavor is more
concentrated and intense.  I've used both but I do prefer the canned
version.  Perhaps it's because that's what I grew up eating or maybe I buy
cheap fresh cheese.
   I like your honesty on this.  That's the spirit, admit up front
that you're no expert, in the hopes of keeping some snobbish
instigator from saying something negative about your comments.  It is
very possible that a lot of what we like we like because of habit.
But the idea of eating is not to impress other people, it's for you
and it's your choice.
People prefer the foods they were fed growing up and their taste
preferences don't change much throughout their lives... if as a child
your parents fed you canned ravioli as a special treat that is what
you will consider gourmet dining your entire life.
I heartly concur. When I was a child it was the Kraft green can of
parmesan cheese; thought there was nothing finer. But then I tasted
fresh grated pecorino romano and could actually taste the _cheese_
and not just salt that was in the green can. Still waiting to try the
parmegano reggiano (sp?), one day soon, I hope.
Brooklyn1
2012-05-03 15:02:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@webtv.net
Post by Brooklyn1
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:54:10 -0700 (PDT), Tommy Joe
Post by Gary
I actually prefer the green can parmesan cheese. The flavor is more
concentrated and intense.  I've used both but I do prefer the canned
version.  Perhaps it's because that's what I grew up eating or maybe I buy
cheap fresh cheese.
   I like your honesty on this.  That's the spirit, admit up front
that you're no expert, in the hopes of keeping some snobbish
instigator from saying something negative about your comments.  It is
very possible that a lot of what we like we like because of habit.
But the idea of eating is not to impress other people, it's for you
and it's your choice.
People prefer the foods they were fed growing up and their taste
preferences don't change much throughout their lives... if as a child
your parents fed you canned ravioli as a special treat that is what
you will consider gourmet dining your entire life.
I heartly concur. When I was a child it was the Kraft green can of
parmesan cheese; thought there was nothing finer. But then I tasted
fresh grated pecorino romano and could actually taste the _cheese_
and not just salt that was in the green can. Still waiting to try the
parmegano reggiano (sp?), one day soon, I hope.
Buy from a reputable cheese emporium and be sure it's fresh (not dried
out) and eat by splitting off small slivers with a pointy
instrument... do not buy more than you can consume within ten days.
The texture of parmagiano-regiano is mainly what one is paying for,
grated cheese has no texture. If you are going to buy dried
parmagiano-regiano and grate it then you may as well buy the green can
and save a bunch of money... anyone who actually knows about cheese is
not going to spend some $20/lb for cheese and grate it. Even
pecorino/romano costs over $10/lb and is intended to be eaten fresh as
a table cheese and not grated. Grating cheese came about as a way to
use poorly stored dried out cheese rather than throw it away... one
needs to remember that cheese has been made for thousands of years,
long before there was plastic wrap and refrigeration. Even cooking
parmagiano-regiano is sinful, use a much less expensive hard cheese
for cooking... cooking parmagiano-regiano is not a sign of a gourmet,
it's indicative of a kitchen imbecile and TIAD.
ViLco
2012-05-03 10:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
People prefer the foods they were fed growing up and their taste
preferences don't change much throughout their lives... if as a child
your parents fed you canned ravioli as a special treat that is what
you will consider gourmet dining your entire life.
Only if you do not put any effort in *knowing* food, which is obviously your
case
gtr
2012-05-04 00:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by ViLco
Post by Brooklyn1
People prefer the foods they were fed growing up and their taste
preferences don't change much throughout their lives... if as a child
your parents fed you canned ravioli as a special treat that is what
you will consider gourmet dining your entire life.
Only if you do not put any effort in *knowing* food, which is obviously
your case
For a counter cliche: Tastes change.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
George M. Middius
2012-05-04 01:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
Post by ViLco
Post by Brooklyn1
canned ravioli as a special treat that is what
you will consider gourmet dining your entire life.
Only if you do not put any effort in *knowing* food, which is obviously
your case
For a counter cliche: Tastes change.
Sheldon can't taste anything anyway.
gtr
2012-05-04 00:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
That is true a good deal of the time, but not always. I think there's
some expensive stuff out there that if you were to try it you might
not think it's so great. I'm a cheapo too when it comes to cheeses
and other deli type items.
Bon apetite!
Post by Tommy Joe
I'd love to stick a blindfold on the so-
called experts so they can sip or devour a variety of foods ranked
from 1 to 20 and see how they do.
I think they'll do just fine. I don't think discriminating tastes are
about pretty pictures in the magazine. Quality foods prepared freshly,
that's about it.

Giving people "expensive" foods, particularly wine and such, I don't
really have taste buds that can distinguish between $50 bottles and
$200. $5 and $15? That I can usually sort out.
Post by Tommy Joe
I also wonder how many people would
recognize it if a chef in a mid-priced restaurant took a container of
Wendy's salad and put it in a nice looking bowl and served it along
with an mid to expensive priced entree. (that may be the first time
I've ever used that word, entree, in my life, in print).
"Recognize". I think I'd recognize a pile of fresh greens. If it was
only iceberg lettuce and a sliced cucumber it better have a nice
dressing on it. Does Wendy's have a nice dressing?
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
George M. Middius
2012-05-04 01:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
Post by Tommy Joe
I'd love to stick a blindfold on the so-
called experts so they can sip or devour a variety of foods ranked
from 1 to 20 and see how they do.
I think they'll do just fine. I don't think discriminating tastes are
about pretty pictures in the magazine. Quality foods prepared freshly,
that's about it.
The Food section of my paper has an article about a taste-test of red
wine vinegars. The cheap, ubiquitous one (Pompeii) was the winner.

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/adios-balsamic-hello-red-wine-vinegar/2012/04/30/gIQAWeKBuT_story.html>

One tester said his preference was for the vinegar that was most
familiar to him.

One reason that the Pompeii won might be that it moves off the shelves
quickly. The designer ones that cost a lot more (up to 20 times as
much, according to the article) probably sit on the shelves for ages,
their better natures crumbling as the months go by.
Tommy Joe
2012-05-04 03:25:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by George M. Middius
One tester said his preference was for the vinegar that was most
familiar to him.
One reason that the Pompeii won might be that it moves off the shelves
quickly. The designer ones that cost a lot more (up to 20 times as
much, according to the article) probably sit on the shelves for ages,
their better natures crumbling as the months go by.
Interesting topic to me, and it extends beyond food and wine -
just an overall blindfold test to see how honest people really are
about what they think they like or don't like. It's interesting. For
example, I am no wine expert - I drink just to get high, not so much
for the taste, although I recognize garbage alcohol in all it's forms
and would avoid drinking that until I'm on my way to getting high
enough where it no longer matters what it tastes like.

But about this subject, I think a lot of it comes down to
marketing. Look at Courvoisier for example. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but it's just another brandy (or cognac) from the Cognac region of
France, is that correct? Well, that stuff is established, as I'm sure
are other names known only to those who can afford to buy them whether
they like them or not. But in reality, is the stuff from the Cognac
region really any better than the best stuff from California? I don't
know, and I'm not really asking, because any answer is going to be
opinion, whether it's coming from a nobody like myself or from an
expert like the ones I mentioned earlier. So if a brand is
established and has backing, it's not easy for a new kid on the block
to make a name for himself. I see this in all fields. Unless a few
celebrities or "IN" people from a certain field give a new product
the thumbs up it's going to have trouble making a name. This is
where ass kissing comes into play. So that in a sense it could be
said that what wine tasters sometimes taste is not wine at all but the
aroma of those whose asses they kiss.

TJ
gtr
2012-05-04 03:54:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
Interesting topic to me, and it extends beyond food and wine -
just an overall blindfold test to see how honest people really are
about what they think they like or don't like. It's interesting. For
example, I am no wine expert - I drink just to get high, not so much
for the taste, although I recognize garbage alcohol in all it's forms
and would avoid drinking that until I'm on my way to getting high
enough where it no longer matters what it tastes like.
I was in an analyst in market research for a career. I was involved in
the Coke Pepsi tests that produced the "new improved Coke" in the 80's
which everybody hated and it was eventually ditched.

They taste tested two tastes, like the vinegar likely--out of context
and in a vacuum. They did them side by side and the testers concluded
they liked the "sweeter" one better. Even though "sweet" was not a
criterion of selection they use in selecting cola. They were asked
many questions about which they would select for mouth feel and for
texture and for bubbles and so forth. Coke is more "tannic" if you
will so Pepsi won as it was softer and so forth. All the imposed logic
of comparison.

Only the Coke drinkers still don't like Pepsi better and when Coke
tried to formulate their new Pepsi-flavored Coke the coke drinkers
reject it.

Taste tastes prove the comparitive qualities of taste-testing in a
controlled enviroment. That's about all.
Post by Tommy Joe
But about this subject, I think a lot of it comes down to
marketing. Look at Courvoisier for example. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but it's just another brandy (or cognac) from the Cognac region of
France, is that correct? Well, that stuff is established, as I'm sure
are other names known only to those who can afford to buy them whether
they like them or not. But in reality, is the stuff from the Cognac
region really any better than the best stuff from California?
What brandy comes from California?

I'm a big armaganac and cognac fan and Courvoisier isn't as complex for
my tastes. In the finish it's too sweet. And these brandies are all
about finish in my mind.
Post by Tommy Joe
I don't know, and I'm not really asking, because any answer is going to be
opinion, whether it's coming from a nobody like myself or from an
expert like the ones I mentioned earlier. So if a brand is
established and has backing, it's not easy for a new kid on the block
to make a name for himself.
For proof against that look at all the wonderful tequilas that have
come out of Mexico over the last 10 years. Jose Cuervo is the lowest
of the lot and tastes that way. They do have distribution of course.
Post by Tommy Joe
I see this in all fields. Unless a few
celebrities or "IN" people from a certain field give a new product
the thumbs up it's going to have trouble making a name. This is
where ass kissing comes into play. So that in a sense it could be
said that what wine tasters sometimes taste is not wine at all but the
aroma of those whose asses they kiss.
That's what people a lot of people who don't drink a lot of wine always
say. I've been doing a lot of wine tasting lately, in conjunction with
a wine class. I find that the more expensive wines taste better.
Admittedly ALL of the wines selected are picked base on my ability to
find the cheapest example of one kind of wine or another. But when I
can't get one any cheaper than X, I find it tends to be somewhat better
than the others.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Steve Pope
2012-05-04 04:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
What brandy comes from California?
Several, but if someone is talking about an actually good brandy
that actually comes from California (as opposed to Oregon, Washington
etc.) they are likely talking about Germaine-Robin.

Stuff is good. Stuff is clean. It is as close as you can get
to a single-vineyard, single-vintage, completely unfucked-with,
small-producer Cognac; other than the real thing, which is not
easy to find. (Perhaps, impossible).


Steve
Tommy Joe
2012-05-04 05:25:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by gtr
What brandy comes from California?
Several, but if someone is talking about an actually good brandy
that actually comes from California (as opposed to Oregon, Washington
etc.) they are likely talking about Germaine-Robin.
Stuff is good.  Stuff is clean.  It is as close as you can get
to a single-vineyard, single-vintage, completely unfucked-with,
small-producer Cognac; other than the real thing, which is not
easy to find.  (Perhaps, impossible).
I know little or nothing about wine. The California reference is
probably my fault. I drink Brandy but am no connoisseur, that's for
sure. But just want to clear it up that when I said California I
meant the west coast of the USA including California because they grow
grapes there. Anyway, regardless of exact state, I was saying, and
continue to say, that a lot of reputations are earned but perhaps held
on to a long time because it's a money making thing - and just because
the cognac region of france produces good brandy, that doesn't have to
mean it's the best in the world any more than a new york city pizza is
the best because it was made by a "real Italian", or a bag of cocaine
is the best because the guy who sold it to me was a real Columbian or
whatever. Even without knowing anything about the topic I am shooting
off my mouth because I still do not completely trust all products are
as good as the reputation that precedes them. Unfortunately I cannot
prove this even to myself as I do not have the time or money to invest
in taste-tasting every expensive digestible product on the market.

TJ
Nunya Bidnits
2012-05-04 16:04:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by gtr
What brandy comes from California?
Several, but if someone is talking about an actually good brandy
that actually comes from California (as opposed to Oregon, Washington
etc.) they are likely talking about Germaine-Robin.
Stuff is good. Stuff is clean. It is as close as you can get
to a single-vineyard, single-vintage, completely unfucked-with,
small-producer Cognac; other than the real thing, which is not
easy to find. (Perhaps, impossible).
Steve
Reading up on Wiki and other sources, it would seem that it isn't close,
it's the real deal, other than location which prohibits calling it "cognac"
and the use of better grapes than is used for Cognac in france.

The co-founder of Germain-Robin talks about selling the product in a
specialty market:
http://www.craftdistillers.com/trade/modules/brandsite/admin/realfile/GR_TipsOnSelling.pdf

MartyB
Steve Pope
2012-05-04 17:44:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nunya Bidnits
Post by Steve Pope
if someone is talking about an actually good brandy
that actually comes from California (as opposed to Oregon, Washington
etc.) they are likely talking about Germaine-Robin.
Stuff is good. Stuff is clean. It is as close as you can get
to a single-vineyard, single-vintage, completely unfucked-with,
small-producer Cognac; other than the real thing, which is not
easy to find. (Perhaps, impossible).
Reading up on Wiki and other sources, it would seem that it isn't close,
it's the real deal, other than location which prohibits calling it "cognac"
and the use of better grapes than is used for Cognac in france.
Yes, perhaps a bit of exaggeration there, but not much.

In essence I've have only two truly outstanding brandy experiences:
(1) varous Germaine-Robard brandies, and (2) Cognac of various types
from exactly one producer, Paul Giraud, who is known for producing pure,
unadulterated stuff.

With some looking around, there are other pretty good Cognacs and
Armagnacs. (Collectively, "gnacs".)


Steve
Tommy Joe
2012-05-05 10:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nunya Bidnits
Reading up on Wiki and other sources, it would seem that it isn't close,
it's the real deal, other than location which prohibits calling it "cognac"
and the use of better grapes than is used for Cognac in france.
The co-founder of Germain-Robin talks about selling the product in a
specialty market:http://www.craftdistillers.com/trade/modules/brandsite/admin/realfile...
MartyB
I am no authority but have many opinions, none of which I'm afraid
to spout. I believe a lot of what is called superb may indeed be
superb but may also be living off past reputation. Is there really a
region of this world that stands alone in producing something that
cannot possibly be grown somewhere else? I'm sure cocaine can be
produced anywhere just like marijuana. Sure, for some products a
certain soil and temperature and other conditions must be perfect.
But is there really a product anywhere that can be made in only one
place and nowhere else or it's inferior? Sorry, with no clear cut
knowledge about such things, my guess would be no. That's why I value
the blindfold test so much, to challenge the so called experts. And I
want to be the one conducting the tests, not some flunky who works for
one of the companies.

TJ
gtr
2012-05-05 15:17:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
I am no authority but have many opinions, none of which I'm afraid
to spout. I believe a lot of what is called superb may indeed be
superb but may also be living off past reputation.
To echo the same idea(s) from upstream, you're right: Something's are
true and other things are not true. I tend to err on the side of
acceptance, especially on topics where it doesn't really seem to make
any difference. I also believe that people, in general, are honest. A
lot of people think that every one is a cheast and liar. I'm really
glad I don't live that way.
Post by Tommy Joe
Is there really a region of this world that stands alone in producing
something that cannot possibly be grown somewhere else?
There are regions where things grow better than others. But more
importantly relative to context is that in some areas people have been
dealing with a product or plant or service for so long that it's built
into the culture. Their parents and grandparents and cousins and
uncles are all in the business, and little bits and pieces of the art,
or lore or mechancs are picked up all through their lives.

In these great grape growing regions they've been growing grapes and
producing wine for many hundreds of years. They've got a lot of it
really nailed.
Post by Tommy Joe
I'm sure cocaine can be produced anywhere just like marijuana. Sure,
for some products a certain soil and temperature and other conditions
must be perfect. But is there really a product anywhere that can be
made in only one place and nowhere else or it's inferior?
Likely very few. But that doesn't people who make an inferior product
do it *because* it's poorly located, but possibly because they hire
incompetent short-term labor. Or don't think temperature control is so
very important, or some other detail, or many details.
Post by Tommy Joe
Sorry, with no clear cut knowledge about such things, my guess would be no.
I'm gonna remember that quote: Knowing nothing about medicine my
diagnosis is that you have gout… or--or maybe jaundice!
Post by Tommy Joe
That's why I value the blindfold test so much, to challenge the so
called experts. And I want to be the one conducting the tests, not some
flunky who works for one of the companies.
If everyone is a liar and all information is in error I'm not sure what
a blindfold test would mean. Wouldn't you have to personally present,
watching the proceedings to validate what the tester *really* tried and
how they *really* responded. Otherwise who ever is documenting it could
splice/dice and put together a pack of lies in the
film/article/documentation of the event.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Tommy Joe
2012-05-06 00:36:45 UTC
Permalink
gtr wrote:


There are regions where things grow better than others. But more
importantly relative to context is that in some areas people have been
dealing with a product or plant or service for so long that it's built
into the culture. Their parents and grandparents and cousins and
uncles are all in the business, and little bits and pieces of the art,
or lore or mechancs are picked up all through their lives.

In these great grape growing regions they've been growing grapes and
producing wine for many hundreds of years. They've got a lot of it
really nailed.


Absolutely no argument. My point is that new areas with similar or
maybe even superior growing potential are going to have to fight and
claw to get the same respect as those who already have the notoriety.
Who knows, maybe after a certain time the ground goes bad. I don't
doubt that the cognac region of france produces good stuff - brandy I
call it - but I'm sure there are other areas that do as well but lack
the reputation. I know a car is a car and is not a vineyard, but
there are cars that are still selling today off reputations built
years ago and their product is nowhere near as good as it was. I'm
not saying that applies to any particular growing region, but I think
it could potentially apply to anything.

TJ
Tommy Joe
2012-05-06 00:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
To echo the same idea(s) from upstream, you're right: Something's are
true and other things are not true. I tend to err on the side of
acceptance, especially on topics where it doesn't really seem to make
any difference. I also believe that people, in general, are honest. A
lot of people think that every one is a cheast and liar. I'm really
glad I don't live that way.
I am considered a cynic but I also believe that people as a rule
are honest. I too give the benefit of the doubt. Hell, I've been
driving a cab for 33 years, a lot of that time in the projects, and in
all that time I can count on one hand the number of people I've turned
down. People ask if I've got a gun. I tell them, "My gun is here",
pointing at my head.

I am responding to your posts bit by bit as opposed to all on the
same page - a certain snobbish but also practical way of doing it I
think. The ones who think everyone is a cheat are people who live in
an environment where such is the case. I'm telling you I've picked
up all kinds and seen a lot - many drug deals and guns pulled in the
back seat, etc. - and there are people out there on the streets making
it day to day just to get high and maybe eat - and they don't have
time to put their faith in tomorrow. They are too afraid to see
beyond today, and I can understand that. A drug seller on the street
- think of the competition, plus the cops - God, what a life - that
guy is using his brain more in one night than the typical lawyer does
in a month. Anyway, I have faith. I don't believe in any religion,
but I have faith. And so does everyone in some way. Just getting in
a car and driving down the street takes faith that the person coming
the other way isn't having a suicidal day and doesn't suddenly decide
to swerve in front of you to kill himself and whoever else gets in the
way.

TJ
gtr
2012-05-06 01:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
The ones who think everyone is a cheat are people who live in
an environment where such is the case.
That environment is their parents. My experience has it that these
people got that instruction very early in life and will rarely shake
it. Just my view.
Post by Tommy Joe
I'm telling you I've picked
up all kinds and seen a lot - many drug deals and guns pulled in the
back seat, etc. - and there are people out there on the streets making
it day to day just to get high and maybe eat - and they don't have
time to put their faith in tomorrow. They are too afraid to see
beyond today, and I can understand that.
I don't care about those people; low lifes. I spent enough time with
them in another life. But I think cabbies are the best and never miss
an opportunity to pump them for their stories.
Post by Tommy Joe
A drug seller on the street
- think of the competition, plus the cops - God, what a life - that
guy is using his brain more in one night than the typical lawyer does
in a month.
It's a terrible life. And if you are illiterate, so I'm told, your
brain is always racing because you live in a society riddled with
symbols you can't even parse.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Tommy Joe
2012-05-06 00:44:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
Sorry, with no clear cut knowledge about such things, my guess would be no.
I'm gonna remember that quote: Knowing nothing about medicine my
diagnosis is that you have gout… or--or maybe jaundice!
If everyone is a liar and all information is in error I'm not sure what
a blindfold test would mean.  Wouldn't you have to personally present,
watching the proceedings to validate what the tester *really* tried and
how they *really* responded. Otherwise who ever is documenting it could
splice/dice and put together a pack of lies in the
film/article/documentation of the event.
Not fair, not fair - I admitted I had no knowledge and that I was
taking a "guess". I would not take a guess and expect to get paid for
it. Remember, you said your rule is to believe people - so let's
start with believing me. Thank you.

The blindfold test I'm thinking of would be more devious. It
would not be advertised as a test. It would just happen. I might for
example purchase a bottle of expensive wine, remove the top and pour
the wine into another bottle, then replace it with an inferior wine.
Not a garbage one that would be recognized as garbage right away, but
one that is just not considered as good as the one with the label.
Just open it up and give it to them. Then leave the room. Tell them
you're going to the store and will be back in half an hour. Before
leaving, set your video cameras in motion, with audio running as well,
to pick up the comments of your guests. It would be interesting in
your absence to see if any of them would notice or comment on the
perceived difference in flavor or taste of the deceptively bottled
product. In other words, would they know or even suspect? I don't
know. That's why I'd love to be behind such a blindfold test. Of
course we would never go far enough to put something in there that
someone might be allergic to, or something that might get them high or
make them ill in some way. Just an honest test, using deception to
make it work.

TJ
gtr
2012-05-06 01:36:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
Not fair, not fair - I admitted I had no knowledge and that I was
taking a "guess".
I don't know what's unfair, it wasn't meant as malevolent, only wit.
Post by Tommy Joe
I would not take a guess and expect to get paid for
it. Remember, you said your rule is to believe people - so let's
start with believing me. Thank you.
I am believing you: I said I produced stats, (legitimately and
honestly) for 30 years. You dismiss that hold field as as inherently
dishonest (I forget the word you actually used) and so right or wrong I
use that as a baseline for considering your guessing skills.
Post by Tommy Joe
The blindfold test I'm thinking of would be more devious. It
would not be advertised as a test. It would just happen. I might for
example purchase a bottle of expensive wine, remove the top and pour
the wine into another bottle, then replace it with an inferior wine.
Not a garbage one that would be recognized as garbage right away, but
one that is just not considered as good as the one with the label.
Just open it up and give it to them. Then leave the room. Tell them
you're going to the store and will be back in half an hour. Before
leaving, set your video cameras in motion, with audio running as well,
to pick up the comments of your guests. It would be interesting in
your absence to see if any of them would notice or comment on the
perceived difference in flavor or taste of the deceptively bottled
product. In other words, would they know or even suspect? I don't
know. That's why I'd love to be behind such a blindfold test. Of
course we would never go far enough to put something in there that
someone might be allergic to, or something that might get them high or
make them ill in some way. Just an honest test, using deception to
make it work.
Again, I developed research studies forever and you can really get
anything but entertainment from something like that. That's fine too.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
gtr
2012-05-04 18:32:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by gtr
What brandy comes from California?
Several, but if someone is talking about an actually good brandy
that actually comes from California (as opposed to Oregon, Washington
etc.) they are likely talking about Germaine-Robin.
Ah that's right! And there's some really interesting eu de vie and
brandies made by Clear Creek in Oregon.
Post by Steve Pope
Stuff is good. Stuff is clean. It is as close as you can get
to a single-vineyard, single-vintage, completely unfucked-with,
small-producer Cognac; other than the real thing, which is not
easy to find. (Perhaps, impossible).
I suppose there ought to be a word to describe what I like which
includes cognac, armagnac, eau de vie, grappa, marc and all the myriad
"brandy" of the world. There is a lot of swill under the apparently
broad heading "brandy".

Here is one case where the more I pay the more I get. Sadly...
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Cheri
2012-05-04 05:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
Post by Tommy Joe
Interesting topic to me, and it extends beyond food and wine -
just an overall blindfold test to see how honest people really are
about what they think they like or don't like. It's interesting. For
example, I am no wine expert - I drink just to get high, not so much
for the taste, although I recognize garbage alcohol in all it's forms
and would avoid drinking that until I'm on my way to getting high
enough where it no longer matters what it tastes like.
I was in an analyst in market research for a career. I was involved in
the Coke Pepsi tests that produced the "new improved Coke" in the 80's
which everybody hated and it was eventually ditched.
They taste tested two tastes, like the vinegar likely--out of context
and in a vacuum. They did them side by side and the testers concluded
they liked the "sweeter" one better. Even though "sweet" was not a
criterion of selection they use in selecting cola. They were asked
many questions about which they would select for mouth feel and for
texture and for bubbles and so forth. Coke is more "tannic" if you
will so Pepsi won as it was softer and so forth. All the imposed logic
of comparison.
Only the Coke drinkers still don't like Pepsi better and when Coke
tried to formulate their new Pepsi-flavored Coke the coke drinkers
reject it.
Taste tastes prove the comparitive qualities of taste-testing in a
controlled enviroment. That's about all.
Post by Tommy Joe
But about this subject, I think a lot of it comes down to
marketing. Look at Courvoisier for example. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but it's just another brandy (or cognac) from the Cognac region of
France, is that correct? Well, that stuff is established, as I'm sure
are other names known only to those who can afford to buy them whether
they like them or not. But in reality, is the stuff from the Cognac
region really any better than the best stuff from California?
What brandy comes from California?
Korbel for one.

Cheri
Tommy Joe
2012-05-04 05:16:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
That's what people a lot of people who don't drink a lot of wine always
say. I've been doing a lot of wine tasting lately, in conjunction with
a wine class. I find that the more expensive wines taste better.
Admittedly ALL of the wines selected are picked base on my ability to
find the cheapest example of one kind of wine or another. But when I
can't get one any cheaper than X, I find it tends to be somewhat better
than the others.
It is difficult for me to make my point - maybe because I don't
have one - but the point I thought I had, you just fort of proved it
when you said you're doing a lot of wine testing lately "in
conjunction with a wine class". A wine class. See, that proves what
I was saying, that a person can be taught to know the wines they're
supposed to like and not like. They might even learn to like the them
- or they might like them right from the start - but the fact that
someone would go to a wine class only proves my point.

I said a person can form considered good taste in one field, but
that doesn't mean they have good taste in everything. In other words,
I'm having a hard time giving in to statistics because I'm not the one
running the tests or conducting the surveys, and am therefore open to
doubts about their honesty - and I still believe there is a level of
learned snobbery (not that there's anything wrong with that), which
does not mean that the snobbery earned in one field extends to all.

Anyway, if wine grew on trees that belonged to nobody, surely in
time people would gravitate toward the trees with the good stuff. But
without a price tag the value could be determined only by the number
of people hanging around each tree and how many are willing to die in
fights over who gets to pluck that tree or take it for their own. I
know there are grades to things. Not everyone has the time. money, or
inclination to test those grades. So I suppose maybe you could be
saying even without meaning to that people with money have more taste
than those with less. I know you're not saying that for real - but
there could be an argument made that you are saying that, even though
you're not. I agree with your method of tasting - I'd probably do the
same - test things for a failing grade, then ex them out - like sports
teams that don't make the playoffs. Once you get in the playoffs,
anybody can win.

Grade A,
TJ
gtr
2012-05-04 18:49:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
It is difficult for me to make my point - maybe because I don't
have one - but the point I thought I had, you just fort of proved it
when you said you're doing a lot of wine testing lately "in
conjunction with a wine class". A wine class. See, that proves what
I was saying, that a person can be taught to know the wines they're
supposed to like and not like.
Your assumption that the class was "teaching me what to like" is in error.
Post by Tommy Joe
They might even learn to like the them
- or they might like them right from the start - but the fact that
someone would go to a wine class only proves my point.
I think your idea of what a "wine class" does is also in error. I
can't imagine that "the kind of people who would go to a wine" class is
a group whose taste can be predicted accurately. If so any/every book
on the TOPIC of wine is suspect. And as you clearly point out below,
all information is suspect.
Post by Tommy Joe
I said a person can form considered good taste in one field, but
that doesn't mean they have good taste in everything. In other words,
I'm having a hard time giving in to statistics because I'm not the one
running the tests or conducting the surveys, and am therefore open to
doubts about their honesty…
If honesty is an impediment there is no information that can be
presumed valid other than personal experience, which can never be
presumed to be without personal bias. Conclusion: All of life is a pack
of lies.
Post by Tommy Joe
- and I still believe there is a level of
learned snobbery (not that there's anything wrong with that), which
does not mean that the snobbery earned in one field extends to all.
Okay then.
Post by Tommy Joe
Anyway, if wine grew on trees that belonged to nobody, surely in
time people would gravitate toward the trees with the good stuff. But
without a price tag the value could be determined only by the number
of people hanging around each tree and how many are willing to die in
fights over who gets to pluck that tree or take it for their own. I
know there are grades to things. Not everyone has the time. money, or
inclination to test those grades. So I suppose maybe you could be
saying even without meaning to that people with money have more taste
than those with less.
Certainly not. But people with more money have more input to the
shaping of an aesthetic.

An aesthetic is an aestheric. I think aesthetics can be shaped by
external considerations: Fashion, desire for personal position in
standing, adopting the views of mentors without analysis, access to
some options (bitter, acidic, tannic) versus others (sweet, savory). In
parts of the world there is more interest in sweets than in others
based on what is availble. There's little of "sugar" in Japan so for a
few millenia they gave a lot of emphasis to red bean as a sweet thing.
Not me! The middle-eastern cultures drink a lot of arak. I find that
stuff impossible. But the geography/topography shapes some of these
things, of this there is no doubt.

When things are in rare supply AND people want them, they become
expensive. But I don't believe expensive crap can have much legs in
constructing an aesthetic if it's really crap. If it's crap it dies
out. Just my view.
Post by Tommy Joe
I know you're not saying that for real - but
there could be an argument made that you are saying that, even though
you're not. I agree with your method of tasting - I'd probably do the
same - test things for a failing grade, then ex them out - like sports
teams that don't make the playoffs. Once you get in the playoffs,
anybody can win.
It's always tough. I didn't like bourbon or cognac many years ago.
Somehow or other, I've become a zealot. It has a fan base that gave it
a stamp of approval that eventually I adopted.

No one idea stands alone as the functional principal in a concept.
There's always interference for better or worse.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Tommy Joe
2012-05-05 10:52:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
If honesty is an impediment there is no information that can be
presumed valid other than personal experience, which can never be
presumed to be without personal bias. Conclusion: All of life is a pack
of lies.
You said that, not me. Personal experience is number one in my
book. It can be indirect personal experience too. I'm not saying
everything out of books should be negated, but yes, I do tend to give
more credence to personal experience. And there are degrees of
experience, aren't there? Let's say some guy lives next to a Mexican
family that is very loud with a ton of screaming children. The guy
develops a view of mexicans based on one family. But what if a guy
lives in a neighborhood that is filled with very loud mexicans and
their chidren, and he has come to believe that all mexicans are that
way. Well, he may be close. It may be true that all mexicans of that
particular class have a lot of loud children roaming free. Maybe it's
a bad example, but it's the first one that comes to mind. Let's put
it this way. I lived in an apartment where over time I became the
only non hispanic living there. Next door was the same. Just about
anywhere in that neighborhood was the same. So after 9 years of
staying there and finally being forced out by the managers - all
change is good in the end - I had to go apartment hunting. I went up
and down all the north/south streets that run across Hollywood Blvd
and Franklin in Hollywood. Every apartment building I went into, the
first thing I did was look at the mailbox to see how many hispanic
names were listed. 9 years of experience was enough for me. No, if
someone is experienced and is honest and open in the way you were when
you said you were an idiot - I say the same of myself - I will be more
inclined to listen to that person than one without the same
experience, which doesn't mean I won't keep my ears open for all.
Anyway, I don't believe everything is a pack of lies. Some things,
like politics, I don't have to waste time talking about what is or
isn't true because I just discard the whole thing from the start. No
interest. If I think something is full of lies, I won't waste time
with. I'm not a hunter. If only 1 in 100 movies are good, I'm not
going to go out looking for that one movie. I'll see it when it lands
on tv, and even then I might not make a date for it.

TJ
gtr
2012-05-05 14:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
But what if a guy
lives in a neighborhood that is filled with very loud mexicans and
their chidren, and he has come to believe that all mexicans are that
way. Well, he may be close.
In that case, based on my neighbors, most people are named Ted, Danny,
Marge and most children are named either Sonny or Katy.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Tommy Joe
2012-05-06 00:11:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
In that case, based on my neighbors, most people are named Ted, Danny,
Marge and  most children are named either Sonny or Katy.
Well, I thought it was a funny story, and it happens to be true. I
was scared stiff of living in another loud place where I had to crawl
into the closet and close the door while wearing earplugs and taking
sleeping pills just to grab a few hours of what passes for sleep. Of
course not all mexicans are that way - but the class of mexicans that
moved into MY neighborhood were. And of course I know it's not MY
neighborhood, as in the end the earth is everyone's neighborhood
constantly on the change.

TJ
Tommy Joe
2012-05-05 10:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
Your assumption that the class was "teaching me what to like" is in error.
I think your idea of what a "wine class" does is also in error.  I
can't imagine that "the kind of people who would go to a wine" class is
a group whose taste can be predicted accurately.  If so any/every book
on the TOPIC of wine is suspect. And as you clearly point out below,
all information is suspect.
You are probably right. It wasn't an assumption as much as an
image I had, right or wrong. I just find humor in it, you don't need
to be defensive, although I don't blame you if you are. I may have
sounded negative in my comments. But still I must admit the term
"wine class" is funny to me, although I suppose anything could be
taught or learned in a class, of course. Yes, I do not trust a lot of
information, especially when marketing is involved. Anyway, my point
is and was from the start, among other things, that not everybody can
afford to taste everything they might want to taste - and not
everybody may care to do so either. I can see someone trying to help
someone else on something. For instance, maybe I'm sipping a brandy
that costs more than I usually spend, and you say, "You really should
try THIS", handing me a shot of what you're talking about. Of course
I'll try it. But I'm referring to those who would verbally assail the
cheapo brandy drinker as some kind of know-nothing when in reality he
may be a guy with great taste but not the money to back it up in all
cases. And while it's true that we usually get what we pay for, I
don't believe that is true across the board. There's a lot of
expensive shit out there all the way around.

TJ
Tommy Joe
2012-05-05 10:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
When things are in rare supply AND people want them, they become
expensive. But I don't believe expensive crap can have much legs in
constructing an aesthetic if it's really crap.  If it's crap it dies
out.  Just my view.
Yes it dies out - and is then replaced with a new and improved
version of the same old crap. Maybe the people selling the crap are
very small in number. Maybe if one thing dies out it doesn't matter
because they've got another load of crap on deck. I am not a lover of
marketing. I don't mind a good advertisement, but I resent the way
companies take things off the shelves - make them disappear - then
bring them back 10 years later costing 4 times more than before but
they're also 4 times cheaper made and it shows.

TJ
Tommy Joe
2012-05-05 11:02:14 UTC
Permalink
It is always tough. I didn't like bourbon or cognac many years ago.
Somehow or other, I've become a zealot.  It has a fan base that gave it
a stamp of approval that eventually I adopted.
I know a few guys who love brandy and only drink "the good stuff".
I am not doubting that it's superior to the cheaper stuff. I do not
fault people their pleasures or hobbies. But it's all about
priorities. I don't have enough money to make brandy tasting a full
time thing, but I don't fault those who do. I bought some Cornvoiseur
(sp?) last week, a 2 oz container, along with the regular cheapo stuff
I buy. I gave the 2 ouncer to a girl. It was cute the way they made
the container look larger than it is. I don't blame them, it's a nice
looking little glass. But before I gave it to her I asked her if I
could taste it - not a shot, just a taste - and I think I could tell
it was smoother perhaps than the stuff I buy, but I had to wonder if I
would have known or recognized the same difference if it had come from
another bottle. And I'm not saying Corvoiseseur is even real good
stuff, just that it's supposedly better than the cheap stuff I buy.
Of course I'd love to test the taste of many things, but that is low
on my priority list as other things crowd out the upper spots - things
such as rent, utilities, and staying alive. I only drink once a
week. So, what are some good brandies that can be had in any ABC
store? Tell me a few, maybe I'll try a small bottle. I know it's a
waste to buy the small bottles as they cost more, but sometimes it has
to be done that way as the larger bottle costs way more than I can
afford - and if I buy it and don't like it, I'm liable to commit
suicide.

TJ
gtr
2012-05-05 15:09:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
So, what are some good brandies that can be had in any ABC
store?
I couldn't say what's available in any ABC store since I only shop in
very large and very well-stocked stores. Here in Southern California
there are number of booze/wine super stores and they are competitive.
Post by Tommy Joe
Tell me a few, maybe I'll try a small bottle. I know it's a
waste to buy the small bottles as they cost more, but sometimes it has
to be done that way as the larger bottle costs way more than I can
afford - and if I buy it and don't like it, I'm liable to commit
suicide.
I agree, particularly if there is a potential you won't want to drink
it. I suggest you go to the brandy section and buy based on price. Ask
the liquorologist for an opinion on what's available. If you have a
BevMo nearby they are likely to have a loose idea of what's what. One
that I remember was both generally reasonable in price and good was
Cerbois. Frankly all of this stuff is too expensive for me to pursue to
often, but I usually have one bottle of something-or-other than I keep
for a month or two.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Steve Pope
2012-05-05 18:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
Post by Tommy Joe
So, what are some good brandies that can be had in any ABC
store?
I couldn't say what's available in any ABC store since I only shop in
very large and very well-stocked stores. Here in Southern California
there are number of booze/wine super stores and they are competitive.
I thought ABC stores were in Hawaii.


Steve
Gary
2012-05-05 18:39:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by gtr
Post by Tommy Joe
So, what are some good brandies that can be had in any ABC
store?
I couldn't say what's available in any ABC store since I only shop in
very large and very well-stocked stores. Here in Southern California
there are number of booze/wine super stores and they are competitive.
I thought ABC stores were in Hawaii.
Steve
Still here in Virginia too.
George M. Middius
2012-05-05 18:58:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
Post by Steve Pope
I thought ABC stores were in Hawaii.
Still here in Virginia too.
Alcoholic Beverage Control -- a generic gubmint name.
Brooklyn1
2012-05-05 19:08:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by gtr
Post by Tommy Joe
So, what are some good brandies that can be had in any ABC
store?
I couldn't say what's available in any ABC store since I only shop in
very large and very well-stocked stores. Here in Southern California
there are number of booze/wine super stores and they are competitive.
I thought ABC stores were in Hawaii.
I didn't think B and C were used in Hawaiian.
http://www.instanthawaii.com/cgi-bin/hawaii?Language
Steve Pope
2012-05-05 20:07:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
Post by Steve Pope
I thought ABC stores were in Hawaii.
I didn't think B and C were used in Hawaiian.
True. While there are ABC Stores in Hawaii ( www.abcstores.com ),
their name is not Hawaiian, or even transliterated Hawaiian.


Steve
Tommy Joe
2012-05-06 00:56:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
I thought ABC stores were in Hawaii.
I didn't think B and C were used in Hawaiian.http://www.instanthawaii.com/cgi-bin/hawaii?Language
Names and labels are weird. When I first came to NC back in 1993 I
got some weed from a country guy who called it kind bud. That's what
the good stuff was called. I asked one guy to spell it. He spelled
it that way - kind bud. So from him I began calling the high grade
stuff kind bud. Then one day in a post into another group a few years
back I used that expression and some guy responded by saying, "It's
not 'kind', it's 'kine' - kine bud." I remembered from doing
crosswords an old clue for the word kine - archaic cow or something
like that - so I assumed that since the kine bud around here seems to
come from country folks - who will part with some but rarely sell it -
I assumed it represented pure country - you know, cows, pastures, that
sort of thing - and I went back to that newsgroup and told that to the
guy who told me it was kine. He said no - 'kine' is Hawaiian for
excellent. I never knew that. Anyway, your Hawaiian post made me
think of that.

TJ
Tommy Joe
2012-05-06 00:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
I thought ABC stores were in Hawaii.
That's what they call hard liquor stores in NC. In PA they were
called State Stores. In CA hard liquor could be bought in a
convenience store. It's different everywhere. Hell, when I was a kid
in PA I remember one time going to a drug store down the block to buy
a tennis ball to use for playing stick ball and the guy said sorry,
can't sell it to you today. I asked why and he said it's Sunday, no
recreational items can be sold. Now I'll admit I was a bit of a
nuisance to this guy and maybe he would have sold it to someone else,
but in PA they had some really old blue laws in effect, some of which
remain to this day. If you're a beer drinker in PA you better learn
to plan ahead because they don't sell beer anywhere on Sunday even to
this day, unless it's a bar that serves a certain percentage of food
that qualifies them to sell alcohol. I found that out the hard way
when I moved back from CA to PA in '91 and got up one Sunday night
around 11pm and went down the street to the local bar - one on every
other block in Allentown - and they were all close - and then it hit
me, oh god, it's sunday, now I remember - but I just kept walking,
maybe close to two hours until finally I spotted an open bar. It was
like 1;30, only half an hour to closing, and the hangover was almost
gone from the walk. But I got a twelve pack and carried it home.

TJ
Tommy Joe
2012-05-06 00:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
I agree, particularly if there is a potential you won't want to drink
it. I suggest you go to the brandy section and buy based on price.  Ask
the liquorologist for an opinion on what's available.  If you have a
BevMo nearby they are likely to have a loose idea of what's what.  One
that I remember was both generally reasonable in price and good was
Cerbois. Frankly all of this stuff is too expensive for me to pursue to
often, but I usually have one bottle of something-or-other than I keep
for a month or two.
I drink vodka because it's supposedly the purist of hard liquors,
but I don't like it, and I've tried many brands. I prefer brandy, but
I'm no connoisseur. I appreciate your help on this. I'm not sure
that buying the highest priced stuff means it's the best stuff
though. I'm in NC, used to live in L.A. - but here you can only buy
liquor in a state run ABC store, closed on Sundays of course. I'll do
that, check out a few. Like I said in a recent post, I bought a small
portion of some "relatively" expensive brandy last week and took a sip
before giving it a small gift to someone. It was not a true test,
just a quick sip and taste - and I was not patient enough to actually
put any "soul" into the process. Thanks for your help.

Oh one more thing I've got to say because I don't think from the
start that I accurately summed up my image of the sort of snob to whom
I was referring in my earlier posts. Last night it hit me - a good
example - the Westminster Dog Show. These are the "dog experts".
Come on now, those dogs are pretty damned ugly as a rule - yet,
because you are not a member of their 'club' you can't be an expert,
and nothing you can say will ever convince those people of anything
they don't already agree with. So I know I'm a snob in some ways, and
you have admitted that you too are in some ways, and that all people
can wear the monocle at times - but the Westminster Show people are
the ones I envision when I use the word snob in a joking or sarcastic
manner. So if I ever use the word snob again in a derogatory way,
instead of weeding through a bunch of possibly incorrectly used words,
just imagine the dog show people I referred to and you'll have the
image I'm talking about. Now don't tell me you're into that as
well.

"Sorry, I can't make it tonight - first I have to go to wine class,
then later to the downtown convention center to judge a dog show,
followed by a group reading of Maya Angelou's poetry at a friend's
house in Laguna Beach. So, sorry, not tonight - but perhaps we can
get together later this week - say Monday, noonish?"

TJ
TJ
gtr
2012-05-06 01:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
I drink vodka because it's supposedly the purist of hard liquors,
but I don't like it, and I've tried many brands.
You drink it but don't like it? Interesting. I don't like and so don't
drink it. It's one of the few spirits I categorically reject. Scotch
too. The former has almost no personality, the latter has too much. I
always get a headache with Scotch and I happen also to have developed
an alergy to iodine. It tastes like iodine to me. I don't know if
there is a connection.
Post by Tommy Joe
I prefer brandy, but I'm no connoisseur. I appreciate your help on
this. I'm not sure
that buying the highest priced stuff means it's the best stuff though.
I didn't recommend that, I recommend you buy based on price, that is
you spend as much as you feel comfortable spending. My experience is
that good brandy starts expensive and goes up from there.

Nevertheless the more I spend on cognac and armagnac the better it's
been--just my personal experience over less than 3 years.
Post by Tommy Joe
Oh one more thing I've got to say because I don't think from the
start that I accurately summed up my image of the sort of snob to whom
I was referring in my earlier posts. Last night it hit me - a good
example - the Westminster Dog Show. These are the "dog experts".
Come on now, those dogs are pretty damned ugly as a rule - yet,
because you are not a member of their 'club' you can't be an expert,
and nothing you can say will ever convince those people of anything
they don't already agree with.
Give up. The definition of snob as it reads in the dictionary is fine.
But once you start tacking it on to other stuff (wine-snob,
pizza-snob, chewing-gum-snob), it generally means "pompous blowhard",
am I right? I just say pompous blowhard and I'm done.
Post by Tommy Joe
So I know I'm a snob in some ways, and
you have admitted that you too are in some ways,
It's easier to admit I'm a pompous blowhard than it is to quibble over
it to someone who has already reached a conclusion. So I try to be an
*amusing* or *entertaining* pompous bloward.

There's no way I think you can separate "discriminating" from "snob"
the way you're using it. You think the dogs are ugly, you don't think
wine should be so complicated. That's fine. Maybe we should call your
attitude "simplistic", "narrow-minded" or "provincial". That's what
dog and wine zealots might say. Hey we all have our interests.
Post by Tommy Joe
Now don't tell me you're into that as well.
For me, in general, dogs are for despising.
Post by Tommy Joe
"Sorry, I can't make it tonight - first I have to go to wine class,
then later to the downtown convention center to judge a dog show,
followed by a group reading of Maya Angelou's poetry at a friend's
house in Laguna Beach. So, sorry, not tonight - but perhaps we can
get together later this week - say Monday, noonish?"
For reference my wine class greatcourses DVD's.

http://tinyurl.com/7bgtazl

And it is *amazingly* informative. We've all learned a boatload about
related topics. I buy the specific wines and then tote them to a
friend's home where from 4 to 6 of us drink the wine, watch the show
and have a take-out dinner of chicken or pizza or something inexpensive.

Some of them do live in Laguna which is just down the road from here.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Tommy Joe
2012-05-04 03:13:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
Bon apetite!
I think they'll do just fine. I don't think discriminating tastes are
about pretty pictures in the magazine.  Quality foods prepared freshly,
that's about it.
Giving people "expensive" foods, particularly wine and such, I don't
really have taste buds that can distinguish between $50 bottles and
$200.  $5 and $15?  That I can usually sort out.
"Recognize".  I think I'd recognize a pile of fresh greens. If it was
only iceberg lettuce and a sliced cucumber it better have a nice
dressing on it. Does Wendy's have a nice dressing?
I think I have good taste too, but I'd still like to see the snobs
put to the test, and I mean a test that costs them money if they're
wrong. I'm talking about a real died in the wool competition where
self-avowed experts in taste are given a variety of things to sample.
They are allowed to give their own opinion - what they really think of
it - as well as what they think it is. They must come close to the
cost. Of course people who have devoted their lives to tasting wines
would probably have an edge in wine tasting, but it in no way
guarantees their tastes in other areas are equally advanced. I can't
help it, I find humor in snob expertise. Oh, one more thing - yes, I
did not make it clear - and maybe I even mislead you with words that
were not well chosen - but I was referring to putting the Wendy's
salad in a really nice bowl at a mid-grade restaurant, whatever that
is - but also saying that even in a highly reputable expensive
restaurants there will still be people who eat there who have no taste
and would not be able to tell the difference. Of course, when I say
Wendy's salad, I'm referring to using more of it if the fancy bowl
requires, and also of fluffing it up and giving it an attractive
appearance. Come on, we all know the world of business is just
another version of the carnival which is itself just another version
of life.

I have good taste too, but that's just my opinion. I believe you
probably have good taste too - but that doesn't mean everyone who eats
expensive foods or drinks expensive wines or buys expensive paintings
is an expert in those fields. I think you know that. Anyway, I just
find humor it in and I'd love to expose a self proclaimed expert as a
fraud on national tv. Then I can become famous for exposing the guy,
only to later be exposed myself as a fraud who exposed the other
person just to gain fame for myself.

TJ
gtr
2012-05-04 05:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
Oh, one more thing - yes, I
did not make it clear - and maybe I even mislead you with words that
were not well chosen - but I was referring to putting the Wendy's
salad in a really nice bowl at a mid-grade restaurant, whatever that
is - but also saying that even in a highly reputable expensive
restaurants there will still be people who eat there who have no taste
and would not be able to tell the difference.
Hell there's a lot of irrelevant salad in otherwise nice restaurants.
I find those Bb stock salads are usually dull as can be.
Post by Tommy Joe
Of course, when I say
Wendy's salad, I'm referring to using more of it if the fancy bowl
requires, and also of fluffing it up and giving it an attractive
appearance. Come on, we all know the world of business is just
another version of the carnival which is itself just another version
of life.
I have good taste too, but that's just my opinion. I believe you
probably have good taste too - but that doesn't mean everyone who eats
expensive foods or drinks expensive wines or buys expensive paintings
is an expert in those fields. I think you know that.
Of course. But they don't need to be. I mean I live near Los Angeles
and there are always a new list of gotta-go-there places. And usually
there interesting and novel. And overpriced. I'm not a snob because I
go there, and I'm not a snob because I enjoy it. A snob is a snob no
matter where you go.

And frankly I run into them less with each passing year. I'm unsure why.
Post by Tommy Joe
Anyway, I just
find humor it in and I'd love to expose a self proclaimed expert as a
fraud on national tv. Then I can become famous for exposing the guy,
only to later be exposed myself as a fraud who exposed the other
person just to gain fame for myself.
Age old comedic wisdom: We like to see the guy with the top hat get it
knocked off and pop his monocle.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Tommy Joe
2012-05-04 06:03:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
Hell there's a lot of irrelevant salad in otherwise nice restaurants.
I find those Bb stock salads are usually dull as can be.
Of course.  But they don't need to be.  I mean I live near Los Angeles
and there are always a new list of gotta-go-there places.  And usually
there interesting and novel.  And overpriced.  I'm not a snob because I
go there, and I'm not a snob because I enjoy it.  A snob is a snob no
matter where you go.
And frankly I run into them less with each passing year.  I'm unsure why.
Age old comedic wisdom: We like to see the guy with the top hat get it
knocked off and pop his monocle.
Glad you agree on the salad issue, but of course I was merely using
salad as an example for what could be almost anything.

I am a snob in some things. I might even be the head snob of an
anti-snob organization, how about that? I am not calling you a snob
because you taste wines or go to decent places you can afford. I have
done the latter when I've had money to burn, just for a lark - the
sort of thing where if it's good, ok, it's good - and if it's bad it
can be turned into an enjoyable experience, sort of like enjoying a
horrible movie.

Yes of course it's a delight to prove know-it-alls wrong. But how
many so-called experts would submit to blindfold tests if their
decisions meant being ridiculed and cast away by their peers? There
must be more pressure in these things. For example, it makes me sick
when politicians are called losers simply because they didn't win an
election. It's not like they're being sent into exile or forced to
live in poverty the rest of their days. When it comes to competition
it's time to step it up. I want to see just how bold the so called
experts are when there's big cash on the line and losing means skid
row. I want to put some pressure on the monocle wearing crowd. I
wonder if you can still get them. I wouldn't mind a fake one, with
blank glass - fits easy in the pocket, can be pulled out at those "I
am an expert" moments.

TJ
gtr
2012-05-04 18:20:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
Glad you agree on the salad issue, but of course I was merely using
salad as an example for what could be almost anything.
So pick something. Not a challenge, it's the "snob" factor that I
frequently note used by people who are really just kvetching themselves
(rightly or wrongly) about price.

People call me a snob about all manner of things because of my
expertise or because of discriminating tastes. This only occasionally
intersects food, by the way. With film I'll talk about technical
failures in the script, or in an actors choices. They I'll get
attacked for attacking the film. I wasn't attacking the film, per se,
just pointing out its inconsistencies. I can describe the failures
inherent in music and films that I LOVE! But that doesn't mean they
don't have warts and that these warts are an impediment to them being a
better work of art.
Post by Tommy Joe
I am a snob in some things. I might even be the head snob of an
anti-snob organization, how about that? I am not calling you a snob
because you taste wines or go to decent places you can afford. I have
done the latter when I've had money to burn, just for a lark - the
sort of thing where if it's good, ok, it's good - and if it's bad it
can be turned into an enjoyable experience, sort of like enjoying a
horrible movie.
There you go. Some people LIKE to eat a bag of potato chips while
watching crummy antique sitcoms. They aren't going to argue for its
validity, but you like what you like. Or better to say you are
entertained by what entertains you.
Post by Tommy Joe
Yes of course it's a delight to prove know-it-alls wrong. But how
many so-called experts would submit to blindfold tests if their
decisions meant being ridiculed and cast away by their peers?
I think it depends a lot on how much there personality it embedded in
their expertise. I did a blindfold test on really old obscure music
and nailed many of them--including pieces I had never heard but could
eliminate other possibilities. I was treated like a god. Two months
later in the same setting I stumble-bummed my way through a sackful of
them guessing everything wrong. I felt like an idiot but that's okay,
because like most mortals I AM an idiot!

The problem arises when your raison d'etre becomes proving your not an
idiot. It's a hopeless process that has you avoiding all kinds of
potential challenges.
Post by Tommy Joe
There must be more pressure in these things. For example, it makes me sick
when politicians are called losers simply because they didn't win an
election. It's not like they're being sent into exile or forced to
live in poverty the rest of their days. When it comes to competition
it's time to step it up.
Well now I think you're talking about the fiber of American society.
I'm fond of saying that in the US (and to whatever degree we have
propigated it world wide) there are two kinds of people: Celebrities
and losers. In Japan I'm struck by the amazing agility in service. And
in Japan there is *no shame* in being in a service job like a waiter.
They usually do their jobs with great pride and precision. In the us
they are all actors or scriptwriters--not *really* waiters.
Post by Tommy Joe
I want to see just how bold the so called
experts are when there's big cash on the line and losing means skid
row.
Yes well that's a tough game no matter what your field.
Post by Tommy Joe
I want to put some pressure on the monocle wearing crowd. I
wonder if you can still get them. I wouldn't mind a fake one, with
blank glass - fits easy in the pocket, can be pulled out at those "I
am an expert" moments.
Be careful, at some level seen or unseen, you're wearing a monocle of
your very own!
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Tommy Joe
2012-05-05 10:26:59 UTC
Permalink
On May 4, 2:20 pm, gtr <***@yyy.zzz> wrote:

<snipped>
Post by gtr
Be careful, at some level seen or unseen, you're wearing a monocle of
your very own!
Absolutely, I am a snob in my own way. But I'm talking about a
certain crowd, and I think we both know what it is. I am considered
negative by most because I am every bit as critical as you when it
comes to movies and music and other things. Yet I know I like a lot
of stuff that might be considered garbage. So in the end I have come
to believe that if I like something it's good, plain and simple - if I
like it, it's good.

TJ
Tommy Joe
2012-05-05 10:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
There you go. Some people LIKE to eat a bag of potato chips while
watching crummy antique sitcoms.  They aren't going to argue for its
validity, but you like what you like. Or better to say you are
entertained by what entertains you.
If pressed, I'm sure I can make an argument for the validity of
watching or doing anything of which I am a part. There has to be
something good about it or I wouldn't be watching it. I'm into humor,
but not the heavy handed kind. I don't care if it's raw and crude,
but I don't like when it's presented with "funny" music that tells you
it's ok to laugh. I really loved the first season of the tv show
Breaking Bad. The early part of the second season was good too.
Then, in my opinion, it started falling apart- but I still watch it as
I was calling it my show when it was doing well by me, so I'll stand
by it until it ends, probably at the end of this season. Just using
it as an example. Personally, I think tv almost all the way around is
far superior to movies which are typically poorly written and just
tossed out there like a big fisheman's net to see what they can haul
in for however long the picture lasts till it fades into obscurity or
shows up on tv. I am not fan of movie actors or of the nepotism that
puts them there. I don't care how much money they make though. I
don't care if everyone in this world has more money than me, as long
as I have enough to pay the rent and eat. But believe me, I too am
very critical - to the point where it can sometimes get on people's
nerves. Later on though, when they get older, they find out I was
right, because I've always been ahead of my time. In fact, I'm so far
ahead of the times I'm starting to fall behind.

TJ
Nunya Bidnits
2012-05-04 16:07:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
I'm not a snob because
I go there, and I'm not a snob because I enjoy it. A snob is a snob
no matter where you go.
I agree with that. A true snob will eat shit if it means eating it with and
being seen by the "right people".

;-)

MartyB
Tommy Joe
2012-05-05 10:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nunya Bidnits
I agree with that. A true snob will eat shit if it means eating it with and
being seen by the "right people".
Exactimundo, and that applies as well to many things including art
and music as well as food and wine.

TJ
Gary
2012-05-05 14:37:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tommy Joe
Post by Nunya Bidnits
I agree with that. A true snob will eat shit if it means eating it with and
being seen by the "right people".
Exactimundo, and that applies as well to many things including art
and music as well as food and wine.
TJ
My old boss: "I'd eat a turd if it was properly cooked." meheheh ;)
gtr
2012-05-05 15:18:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
Post by Tommy Joe
Post by Nunya Bidnits
I agree with that. A true snob will eat shit if it means eating it with and
being seen by the "right people".
Exactimundo, and that applies as well to many things including art
and music as well as food and wine.
TJ
My old boss: "I'd eat a turd if it was properly cooked." meheheh ;)
Hey boss--It's lunchtime!
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Gary
2012-05-05 16:14:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
Post by Gary
Post by Tommy Joe
Post by Nunya Bidnits
I agree with that. A true snob will eat shit if it means eating it with and
being seen by the "right people".
Exactimundo, and that applies as well to many things including art
and music as well as food and wine.
TJ
My old boss: "I'd eat a turd if it was properly cooked." meheheh ;)
Hey boss--It's lunchtime!
If this is you, Steve, You could at least properly prepare a turd and make
the dish look cookbook perfect! ;)
gtr
2012-05-05 17:50:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
If this is you, Steve, You could at least properly prepare a turd and make
the dish look cookbook perfect! ;)
Turds, gays, do you guys every talk about food?

Just LOOK at the headers between me and whomever it is you've got
issues with. It's really irritating and not just a little paranoid!
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Gary
2012-05-05 18:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by gtr
Post by Gary
If this is you, Steve, You could at least properly prepare a turd and make
the dish look cookbook perfect! ;)
Turds, gays, do you guys every talk about food?
Just LOOK at the headers between me and whomever it is you've got
issues with. It's really irritating and not just a little paranoid!
So it *IS* you. ;)

You need to quit this morphing crap, Steve. I'm really getting confused
here. ;o
gtr
2012-05-05 18:22:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
Post by gtr
Post by Gary
If this is you, Steve, You could at least properly prepare a turd and make
the dish look cookbook perfect! ;)
Turds, gays, do you guys every talk about food?
Just LOOK at the headers between me and whomever it is you've got
issues with. It's really irritating and not just a little paranoid!
So it *IS* you. ;)
You need to quit this morphing crap, Steve. I'm really getting confused
here. ;o
Pivot:

I get confused every time I try a new pickle between the proportions of
vinegar, water, salt, sugar. I gotta keep better notes!
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
Tommy Joe
2012-05-06 00:08:34 UTC
Permalink
My old boss:  "I'd eat a turd if it was properly cooked."  meheheh  ;)
For enough money I'd do it on national tv. When I was a kid I
always asked people that question: "Would you eat a glass of human
shit for a million dollars?" The number of people who said no always
astounded me. I knew they were not being truthful. Believe me, if
some eccentric millionaire decided tomorrow to pay a million dollars
to the first 10 people in line to share his shit (a big turd divided
up and mashed into 6 ounce glasses) - if that happened, there would be
a line around the block and beyond. It would rival the lines for
American Idol contestants or the lines for any realtiy tv
competition. No, they wouldn't do it for a million - oh no - not
until they see other people getting in line - then they'll fight for a
spot near the front.

Take me, take me, I'm the one you want
TJ
Tommy Joe
2012-05-01 02:45:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
I've been to Italy, several times... most everywhere serves
pre-grated... most folks buy several weeks worth and have their cheese
grated at the store, same as in the US and everywhere else.  It sits
in their fridge until used up, it's not fresh grated at their table.
Even though it's nearly impossible to get folks here to admit it I'd
venture to say that very few actually grate their cheese from a wedge
at table.  I'm one who does exclusively, probably because I use very
little grated cheese... a one pound wedge lasts in my fridge several
months.  I can honestly say I have never bought pre-grated cheese and
I've never tasted cheese from the green can, maybe it's good but I
wouldn't know.  Actually the reason I sometimes run out of grating
cheese is because occasionally I get the urge and I'll eat the entire
thing au jus by slicing off chunks... I always begin by thinking I'll
just nibble a little around the edges but before I know it there is
only a little nub left, so may as well finish her off.
Looks like you're going to have to get in the habit of grating the
whole thing all at once and putting it in some kind of shaker so you
won't gobble it all up. I can't claim to know much about cheeses,
especially the grating kind, although I've done it a few times. I
hate dragging out the cheap walmart cheese grater, but if I find a
small hunk of the good stuff at a reasonable price I might try it one
of these days. Typically I don't eat much of what is considered
Italian style pasta. I do make a good cold penne salad though. I put
olive oil and lemon on it with fresh basil, minced garlic, very finely
slivered cabbage, a bit of radichio for color, maybe a roma tomato
peeled and cut up - and some kind of meat, either chicken or thinly
sliced pork or beef. Pretty good stuff. But I don't keep the dry
preshredded cheese around because I rarely make the type of sauces
that cry for it. I do sometimes put feta cheese in the pasta salad
though, instead of meat, or even along with it.

TJ

TJ
ViLco
2012-05-03 10:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
I've been to Italy, several times... most everywhere serves
pre-grated... most folks buy several weeks worth and have their cheese
grated at the store,
ROTFL, you must have been to Italy under the effect of something I'd never
try
Post by Brooklyn1
same as in the US and everywhere else. It sits
in their fridge until used up, it's not fresh grated at their table.
So tell me why do they sell all those handheld table-graters dedicated to
parmigiano cheese only. Any clue? No, because you're a totally clueless
ignorant prick and don't know shit about Italy.
But go on, shelly, I really like reading your pathetic attempts at showing
off some "knowledge" about italian food, it's always a nice humoristic
moment, that kind of humor where one thinks he's showing off and doesn't
realise that everybody's making fun of him. Pathetic humor, I know, but just
another type of humor, and you're a nice clown
gtr
2012-05-04 00:46:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brooklyn1
I'm one who does exclusively, probably because I use very
little grated cheese...
Safe to disregard your opinions on grated cheese if it's something you
don't do.
Post by Brooklyn1
I can honestly say I have never bought pre-grated cheese and
I've never tasted cheese from the green can, maybe it's good but I
wouldn't know.
It's absolutely horrible and has probably kept lots of people from
pursuing good Italian cheese. You should try it just to see how
ghastly it is. In fact, on the can, I don't think it even says
"cheese" but something like "imitation milk solid substitutes" or some
shit.

It's salty as hell, and I assume one the reasons it's so terrible is
people keep a can in the fridge for the life of the fridge. That's
okay, whatever is in there probably can't spoil any faster than the
container.
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
z z
2012-04-29 17:02:16 UTC
Permalink
ps Pandora's Pasta would be a great commercial marketing name.
Nancy Young
2012-04-30 03:25:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by z z
ps Pandora's Pasta would be a great commercial marketing name.
Just don't open the box.

nancy
Brooklyn1
2012-04-30 12:19:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy Young
Post by z z
ps Pandora's Pasta would be a great commercial marketing name.
Just don't open the box.
nancy
Just don't open Pandora's Box! ;)
T
2012-04-29 19:30:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by z z
$2.98 9oz package Walmart. I have not had good luck boiling stuffed
pastas (another reason I liked Pandora's pasta--stuffed AFTER boiling.)
This package captured my attention because the borsellini "little
purses" are tiny (and cute) so hopefully they wont fall apart during
boiling.
The name little purses would make this a cute entree for a ladies
luncheon.
Ingredients sound great-red pepper pasta, sausage, mozzarella, and
ricotta.
What sauce would you use? Do italians always top pasta with sauce, or
would just a simple shake of the parmesan can suffice?
This is a Walmart product www.marketside.com and the only address is
Bentonville, Arkansas-does that mean the food factory is there also?
Ughh.

Around here we have places that make fresh pasta and then make ravioli
stuffed various meats, cheeses, vegetables, etc. Since it's fresh you
only have to boil it for 4 or so minutes.

And the benefit, I'm not putting more money into WalMart.
Brooklyn1
2012-04-29 21:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by T
Post by z z
$2.98 9oz package Walmart. I have not had good luck boiling stuffed
pastas (another reason I liked Pandora's pasta--stuffed AFTER boiling.)
This package captured my attention because the borsellini "little
purses" are tiny (and cute) so hopefully they wont fall apart during
boiling.
The name little purses would make this a cute entree for a ladies
luncheon.
Ingredients sound great-red pepper pasta, sausage, mozzarella, and
ricotta.
What sauce would you use? Do italians always top pasta with sauce, or
would just a simple shake of the parmesan can suffice?
This is a Walmart product www.marketside.com and the only address is
Bentonville, Arkansas-does that mean the food factory is there also?
Ughh.
Around here we have places that make fresh pasta and then make ravioli
stuffed various meats, cheeses, vegetables, etc. Since it's fresh you
only have to boil it for 4 or so minutes.
When posters write "Around here" without writing WHERE around here is
then you know with 100% certainty that here comes a lie.
i***@webtv.net
2012-04-29 22:50:46 UTC
Permalink
This is a Walmart productwww.marketside.comand the only address is
Bentonville, Arkansas-does that mean the food factory is there also?
No, Bentonville, Arkansas is the home office of Wal Mart. No idea
where this stuff is made contracted; out like other companies.
i***@webtv.net
2012-04-30 02:27:48 UTC
Permalink
This is a Walmart productwww.marketside.comand the only address is
Bentonville, Arkansas-does that mean the food factory is there also?
No, Bentonville, Arkansas is the home office of Wal Mart. No idea
where this stuff is made; contracted out like other companies.
Steve Pope
2012-04-30 04:58:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by z z
What sauce would you use? Do italians always top pasta with sauce, or
would just a simple shake of the parmesan can suffice?
Any subset of the following is common: olive oil, grated cheese,
garlic, black pepper, salt.

Sometimes (this happened to me last year) the pasta will have oil,
salt, and a modest amount of a *very* flavorful crushed basil, such that
while it has no sauce, it is as flavorful as pasta with pesto sauce.

Also you might get the tinyest amount of a tomato sauce, or just
oil, if there are shellfish atop the pasta.

And finally you might have your full-on ragu.


Steve
z z
2012-05-01 02:43:15 UTC
Permalink
The little purses werent so little after boiling-al dente in impossible
because the filling doesnt get hot. I suspect I should have microwaved
them instead :-)

The sausage filling was disappointing-very mild couldnt taste it-one of
my favorite pasta dishes is simply pasta, pepperoni slices, and olive
oil/parmesan/bread crumbs.

I used Ken's Three Cheese Italian salad dressing and then the Kraft
shaker-which was actually a trio of parmesan romano and asiago. Mopping
up the dressing and cheese with a speared purse was pretty good. I would
love to see how they manage to commercially make so many tiny filled
pastas.
sf
2012-05-01 03:00:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by z z
The little purses werent so little after boiling-al dente in impossible
because the filling doesnt get hot. I suspect I should have microwaved
them instead :-)
The sausage filling was disappointing-very mild couldnt taste it-one of
my favorite pasta dishes is simply pasta, pepperoni slices, and olive
oil/parmesan/bread crumbs.
I used Ken's Three Cheese Italian salad dressing and then the Kraft
shaker-which was actually a trio of parmesan romano and asiago. Mopping
up the dressing and cheese with a speared purse was pretty good. I would
love to see how they manage to commercially make so many tiny filled
pastas.
Not knowing what the heck Borsellini is, I can only say "Walmart" is
the problem. Come on! They cheap out so much on what they pay their
suppliers, did you really expect to get flavor?
--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.
George M. Middius
2012-05-01 14:13:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by sf
Not knowing what the heck Borsellini is, I can only say "Walmart" is
the problem. Come on! They cheap out so much on what they pay their
suppliers, did you really expect to get flavor?
Good point. With food from that store, you're lucky if you don't get
poisoned.
Gary
2012-05-01 14:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by George M. Middius
Post by sf
Not knowing what the heck Borsellini is, I can only say "Walmart" is
the problem. Come on! They cheap out so much on what they pay their
suppliers, did you really expect to get flavor?
Good point. With food from that store, you're lucky if you don't get
poisoned.
Those darn Chinese ppl. Oh hi, John! :-D
gtr
2012-05-04 01:25:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
Post by George M. Middius
Post by sf
Not knowing what the heck Borsellini is, I can only say "Walmart" is
the problem. Come on! They cheap out so much on what they pay their
suppliers, did you really expect to get flavor?
Good point. With food from that store, you're lucky if you don't get
poisoned.
Those darn Chinese ppl.
Those damn WalMart purchasers!
--
I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.
-- Galileo
i***@webtv.net
2012-05-03 02:41:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by sf
Not knowing what the heck Borsellini is, I can only say "Walmart" is
the problem.  Come on!  They cheap out so much on what they pay their
suppliers, did you really expect to get flavor?
Good point. With food from  that store, you're lucky if you don't get
poisoned.
True. Surely there's a store close by without spending a fortune in
gasoline getting there that zz could spend her hard earned money on,
get a bargain, AND get decent food, too.
George M. Middius
2012-05-03 13:46:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@webtv.net
Post by sf
Not knowing what the heck Borsellini is, I can only say "Walmart" is
the problem.  Come on!  They cheap out so much on what they pay their
suppliers, did you really expect to get flavor?
Good point. With food from  that store, you're lucky if you don't get
poisoned.
True. Surely there's a store close by without spending a fortune in
gasoline getting there that zz could spend her hard earned money on,
get a bargain, AND get decent food, too.
Many people I know say this or that store is more expensive. They
might be too disorganized to plan ahead, or maybe it's some emotional
hangup about groceries. To me, it seems easy to buy what I need when
it's cheap, or fresh produce in season.
Nunya Bidnits
2012-05-01 16:56:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by z z
This is a Walmart product www.marketside.com and the only address is
Bentonville, Arkansas-does that mean the food factory is there also?
No, but it does mean you probably bought a bag of crap. I wouldn't buy
anything that was contract manufactured to WalMart specs.

Just sayin'.

MartyB
ViLco
2012-05-02 10:59:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by z z
What sauce would you use? Do italians always top pasta with sauce, or
would just a simple shake of the parmesan can suffice?
Drained pasta with just cheese would be too dry, and if one drains the pasta
as quickly as one can then the result will just be watered down pasta: when
we say we are going to dress the pasta with "just cheese" we implicitly mean
that there will be also a fat as the base for the dressing, be it EVO oil or
butter.
As to which sauce I would use for those borsellini, I'd go for a classic
used for stuffed pasta in my area: sage flavored butter (melt butter in a
skillet with some sage leaves, remove them and use to dress). Otherwise,
seen the stuffing, one could use a very basic tomato sauce: EVO oil and
garlic, remove garlic as it starts to brown, add finely minced tomatoes,
salt and cook for 5 minutes over medum-low, with the optional addition of
some fresh parsley or basil when you remove from the heat.
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